Seeeking detail pics of Gp2 Capri RS2600 and RS3100.

[Greg Cozier]

Thanks for that! Interesting slipper arrangement on the plastic rear spring and you can make out some pressings/rollings on the outer edge of the rear wheel tub.

[zakspeed65]

Hi PZR,

Brilliant photos!!

There is a 73 car here in NZ that is being restored, I am sure these photos show this car. i will let the owner know in due course.
Are there any more hidden away?

Cheers,

Gary.

[PZR]

Yes, the event was well covered by the Japanese specialist press of the time.

I'll see what I can scan without causing too much damage.....

[PZR]

A few more:

[zakspeed65]

Hi PZR,

Thanks so much.

There are great.

Turns out so of these will be of the car here in NZ.
The owner will be very happy.

Cheers,

Gary.

[terence]

RE the inner rear arches,this can be achieved by using the rear of one side to the front of the other

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by terence bower

RE the inner rear arches,this can be achieved by using the rear of one side to the front of the other

Terence, please explain. Do you mean the Taunus inner wheel arch will work for one side and the outer for the other?

[terence]

Hi Greg,take two Capri arches,cut them in half at the shocker aperture. Left Rear goes to Right Front and the same for the other side. This is quite easy and
can be done without removing the whole arch IE,the rear section to receive opposite side that will form the front. I have done this to a customers car but did not have a camera/phone with me when the job was completed. It did come out very well though,cant see the join!

[brown dog]

I have found some pics of the Taunus rear arch, and they do not look like the Gp.2 arches. The Gp.2 arch is much wider than the Capri arch, and more "square" in profile when viewed from above. The swaging does make it look like a factory pressing, but I have not seen anything that looks close so far.

[Greg Cozier]

I'm starting to think the easiest solution is to build the back end of my Capri like a tarmac Gp4 Escort with 15" wheel tubs, vertically aligned 4-link boxes, watts linkage, large diff tunnel etc. The reality is that the car will never have 12" wheels on it anyway and Gp4 Escort parts are easy to get and would be standard with my other rally cars and the bodyshell knowledge is quite common.

I have read that the original rollcages were welded through to the front suspension but have never seen pictures of this, can anyone help? Rollcages are quite controversial in Historic rallying these days.

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

I'm starting to think the easiest solution is to build the back end of my Capri like a tarmac Gp4 Escort with 15" wheel tubs, vertically aligned 4-link boxes, watts linkage, large diff tunnel etc. The reality is that the car will never have 12" wheels on it anyway and Gp4 Escort parts are easy to get and would be standard with my other rally cars and the bodyshell knowledge is quite common.

I have read that the original rollcages were welded through to the front suspension but have never seen pictures of this, can anyone help? Rollcages are quite controversial in Historic rallying these days.

The RS3100 had 16" wide wheels on the rear, and 12" wide on the front. The rollcage went through the bulkhead, and followed the shape of the inner wheelarch down to the chassis rail, with welds along its length. Does not look very nice. there are not many aspects of the original cage that you would copy if you were building a replica.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by brown dog

The rollcage went through the bulkhead, and followed the shape of the inner wheelarch down to the chassis rail, with welds along its length. Does not look very nice. there are not many aspects of the original cage that you would copy if you were building a replica.

I agree modern cages are better but for Historic rallying welding bars through the bulkhead is specifically forbidden unless 'proof of use in period' is provided. I was hoping to get pictures of an original car (either in period or as currently exists) with this feature so i could add it to a modern rollcage.

[Alex E]

I am happy to be corrected but I would be very surprised if the Capris in 1974 had the roll cage extending through the bulkheads.
I am not a Capri expert by any means but their main rivals, BMW CSL`s, certainly did not have this even in Group 5 in 1976. I am pretty sure the Capri, as with the CSL`s, still only had 1" diameter front section of the cage in `74.
It was clearly there purely to protect the driver ( !!) and I don`t think at this stage they had any thoughts of using it for any other reason.
The first time I have seen the cage mounted to the front turrets (BMW wise...) was in `77 on the 320 turbo Gp 5 car. But the cage was alloy in this case. Probably around this time Zakspeed were doing the same thing with their Escorts.

Alex

[terence]

I think that to be correct,after having a similar conversation with Holman Blackburn,he told me,as well as others from the period,that the cages were invariably bolted in,just a plain six point was deemed enough.

[Peter Mallett]

In the book "Capri Development and Competition History of Ford's European GT Car" by Jeremy Walton, there is a picture of the engine bay of the 1973 car (p147). There is no evidence of the roll cage in the engine bay. OTOH the Zakspeed Gp 5 was a space frame and thus had the frame (or roll cage) running to the front of the car.

Likewise in Mike Taylor's "Ford Capri" there is a pic of the RS2600 with the Ford-Weslake V6, bored out to 2900cc (p139). But no roll cage in the engine bay.

[brown dog]

I have spent several hours studying the 74 car that is here in NZ, and it certainly does have the rollcage extending through the bulkhead. I have some pics of the Peter Muecke car, which is the only other genuine 74 car that I know of, and it appears to have the same bars in the engine bay too. You can see it in the pic below, outlined in red. It is only maybe 1" -1 1/4" diameter, and runs down both sides and is welded to the top of the chassis leg, just forward of the crossmember mounting. Not sure if the 73 cars had this feature though.

Conrad

[Peter Mallett]

Very difficult to tell whether that is indeed a roll cage component. If it is the roll cage I'd suggest it was added when the car went to the antipodes and perhaps complies with local regs. Didn't that car also run a 427 V8 at one point?

[Greg Cozier]

Walton's book says the 74 RS3100 had the cage extended to the front suspension, that's why I asked for pics here. I had assumed it was under the wheel arch, the pic above proves different. If better pics are available please post them, they may end up in my logbook. The RS3100 homologation form also shows a crossmember without engine mounts, it would be great to get pics of the chassis mounts as well.

[Alex E]

I really don`t think you can take too much notice of the Meucke car. I can see several thing on this car that are not original. And anyway it is difficult to see how these bars running along in line with the chassis rails could connect with the roll cage out in line with the A pillars ?
I think Sean Lynns car is the one that was in Walkinshaws collection for many years & might be a better reference.
If you are looking for evidence that this was done in period so you can use it on a current car you should not worry too much. Nearly every replica Gp 2 car I have seen has this done & nobody seems to mind.
All of the factory CSL`s had the engine mounted on the chassis legs . Sure the Capri was the same.
You have to remember the same bloke did the basic design for both.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Walton's book says the 74 RS3100 had the cage extended to the front suspension, that's why I asked for pics here. I had assumed it was under the wheel arch, the pic above proves different. If better pics are available please post them, they may end up in my logbook. The RS3100 homologation form also shows a crossmember without engine mounts, it would be great to get pics of the chassis mounts as well.

I'll take your word for that because I can't find the reference in the book.

Another question. What homologation certificate do you have, because the FIA/RAC No 5336 on my desk fails to mention the 3100? Not surprisingly because it was an engine homologation, not a different car, so just a continuation of the same thing. As such I suspect the crossmember was a power steering version.

[brown dog]

I think some of you might have missed the point I was making about the Muecke car which I posted a pic of above (this is the car in Germany) The roll cage bars on the car pictured above are identical to the ones on the car in NZ, so very unlikely that both cars had them added at a later date. From memory they passed through the bulkhead and bend to meet the roll cage at the A pillar. Engine mounts are cast aluminium parts that hang off the chassis rails. Interestingly the chassis rails on the NZ car are the "4 bolt" type, which Capri anoraks will know was the 4 cylinder spec. The V6 bodyshells used the "6 bolt" type, which describes the mounting of the crossmember to the chassis.

This youtube clip shows a 1974 car, I think this car is owned by the Ford Germany Cologne museum, and it looks correct in all aspects to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7Z5...eature=related


From what I have seen of the "NZ" car (the last 74 car built) it was not built from a bodyshell pulled off the production line, rather it was assembled from the ground up using new panels and pressings. The quality of the sheetmetal work is extraordinary to say the least

Alex - the Shaun Lynn car is a beautiful thing, but it is a 1973 (Weslake) car that has been converted to 1974 spec. A lot of the 1973 details remain.

Conrad

[Alex E]

But the original question was if the roll cage extended throught to the front suspension. It appears that it does not. If you look on the video around 22 seconds there is clearly nothing extending forwards from the `A` pillar vertical cage bars up as far as the dash. The upper bars do appear to be the smaller diameter as well.
These bars along the chassis rails are more likely to support the extra weight of the 24 valve engine. A lot of cars in this period had similar bars in the boot area to support the overhung weight of the large fuel tanks.
I was told that the `74 cars were actually the `73 cars updated. Not sure if that is correct ? Does anyone know ?

[brown dog]

Hi Alex,

I am not sure if we are both interpreting the original question the same.

The NZ car (which was the last chassis number issued, and PROBABLY the last car built) has bars that run from the A pillar door bar in through the engine bay, and attach to the top of the chassis rails. The Peter Muecke car (which appears to be the second last car built going from the chassis number) appears to have exactly the same bars.This to me suggests that both cars had these fitted from new. Incidentally, they are attached to the top of the chassis rail with a doubler plate welded on,just behind the engine mounts, so more likely were added to support the weight of the engine as you have suggested, rather than chassis stiffness, which was not being given a lot of thought in that period.

On that video, at around 0.22, you cannot see where the bars would join the A pillar bar. Where the camera pans across the engine bay, it does not give enough of a downward angle to see where the bars are either. I have just checked back to my photos, and as the bar is on quite a steep angle where it connects to the A pillar bar high up behind the dash. Sorry I cannot post pics of these details, but the owner does not want these pics all over the internet, so I must respect his wishes.

I cannot say for sure either way if the 1974 cars were just 1973 shells that had been updated. My understanding was that the 1974 factory cars were built from new shells. but that is all from anecdotal evidence so I cannot be sure. Many of the body panels on the Capris had the date of manufacture stamped into them, I will have a look for these next time I am looking at the NZ car.

Conrad

[Peter Mallett]

This thread is becoming more interesting. I would be surprised if, given the financial constraints of the time, Ford would have built new cars for '74.

I had another look at the black and white pic in the Walton book and in better light (or perhaps my eyes were working better) there is a bar welded to the bulkhead and running down to the lower front of the engine bay. Whether this is part of the roll cage is questionable. It could just be additional engine bay stiffness. Still can't find Walton's reference to the rollcage extending through the bulkhead though.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Alex E

But the original question was if the roll cage extended throught to the front suspension. It appears that it does not. If you look on the video around 22 seconds there is clearly nothing extending forwards from the `A` pillar vertical cage bars up as far as the dash. The upper bars do appear to be the smaller diameter as well.
These bars along the chassis rails are more likely to support the extra weight of the 24 valve engine. A lot of cars in this period had similar bars in the boot area to support the overhung weight of the large fuel tanks.
I was told that the `74 cars were actually the `73 cars updated. Not sure if that is correct ? Does anyone know ?

Quite correct,there is reference to a 73 car as "the car with flat doors",that was said in early 74