Brock/Doohan/Sullivan for 24 hr

[racer69]

Apparently Peter Brock looks like he could race a Monaro in the event, Doohan could team up with Danny Sullivan and Morris in a Ferrari, if these come off it can only be good for the event.

What is the latest on the race as well, haven't heard much, have CAMS approved the race, grid size etc....

Also, why does Doohan have to race a car with Paddle shifters. I know his ankle is fused and that prevents him from heel and toeing, but for example in the Viper and Monaro they are sequential gearboxes, requiring no clutch, and as far as i know no clutch is required to change gear in V8s. When Tommy Kendall raced for DJR at bathurst in 1996, he had similiar ankle problems, and he raced with his right on the accelerator and left foot on the break and no clutch, so i don't see how this presents a problem for Doohan.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I believe they can upshift without the clutch, but I think they still need to use the clutch to downshift, hence the need to "heel and toe."

[D.R.T.]

Many drivers in the ancient V8 Supercars don't bother with the clutch with downshifts. Tommy Kendall couldn't have, I think it comes down to what your used too.
In relation to the 24 hour, this race is looking like it going to be something quite special, "spin and win" Sullivan, Brock and Doohan, I can't wait.

[Morris 1100]

You could not do a 24 hour without using the clutch, it would be too hard on the dogrings without using it.

[D.R.T.]

But in the 24 hour Doohan would run a car with a sequential box. We were more thinking the 1000 km race

[Morris 1100]

A seqential box is the same internals as the H pattern just a different shift, the sequential means you are lined up for the next gear better, but if you want it to last it still needs the clutch!

[marcus]

would Like to see how Danny Sullivan tackles the mountain , havent seen him race in quite a while.

and its always good to see brocky back behind the wheel and as for Doohan , of course we know he was one of best bike riders ever but how he handles the change to car racing is still to be determined , i wish him well and hope this team does come together and scores a victory for the Monaro

[DAVID PATERSON]

There's a bit of a furphy going around about paddle shifters and sequential boxes. The Tiptronic/Steptronic/sport modes you see offered in many flash new cars nowadays are NOT sequential shifters like in ST, nor are they like F1. The road cars have an ordianry automatic gearbox with a torque converter and a manualised gear shift control. Super Tourers have a manual gearbox with a clutch, but the gearshift is sequential not h-pattern, same as a motorbike. F1 cars are actually using a semi-automatic gearbox which is something else again, it is a manual box but it has no clutch as such. They are actually like the preselectors used in British buses 50 years ago!

[D.R.T.]

However with a ST, when changing gear, there is no need for a clutch.

[hoonboyz]

but this isnt the case with the M3 or F360 surely they are true semi auto's ie computer controls the clutch ?????

[Morris 1100]

With a ST you don't need a clutch for sprint races but for endurance racing it sure helps!

Super Touring gearboxes are not any more advanced than the V8s it is just the gearchange!

[D.R.T.]

In 1999, when Jim Richards changed gear with the leaver on the steering wheel, did he use he clutch, I don't think so.
And the same for most of the entire field. Watts, Jones, Morris, Coleman, Robson, etc

[DAVID PATERSON]

They don't disengage the clutch when changing gear, but of course the car still has a clutch, how else would the power get from the crank to the gearbox? They they still need to disengage the clutch to change gears at very low speed. I believe that on some of them, there is a mechanism, which disengages the clutch when pressure is applied to the gearshift paddles/lever.

These so-called sequential paddle shift road cars don't have a clutch, they have a torque converter, just like an Automatic, becasue that's what they are.

Morrie is right, the V8 supercars and ST cars use basically the same gearbox, only the shifter is changed and of course the V8s need a much heavier clutch, because they're making triple the torque.

[D.R.T.]

In 1999, Channel 7 ran a peice on Anthony Robson's Honda Accord in he showed how by pulling back/foward on the lever , cut the engine for a small second , with the gear being changed. All the time with accelerator engaged, no clutch , unless taking off.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by D.R.T.
But in the 24 hour Doohan would run a car with a sequential box. We were more thinking the 1000 km race

The 360 Ferrari is a Paddle shift so no need for the clutch. So Doohan will be fine

[racer69]

As far as i know it just depends on personel preference. For instance at the AMP 1000 in 1997, Brock in the opening stint can clearly be seen using the clutch when changing, yet when Derek Warwick gets in, the can clearly be seen not using the clutch. Also, i read somewhere that during the 1998 AMP 1000, Richards said that the clutch in the Volvo S40 was only depressed 6 times during the race, at the start, at the four pitstops, and in parc ferme.

Similiarly, when onboard with V8s, some don't move their left leg, on some inboards with Radisich in the past, he can be seen changing up and down without touching the clutch, and not lifting when changing gear. This is obviously very hard on the box, wheras with Lowdnes, he lifts his foot off the gas on the upchange, then uses the clutch on the down change.

It has to be possible to change up and down for long periods of time without the clutch, otherwise Tommy Kendall couldn't have driven at Bathurst in 1996. However it is easier on the car while using the clutch.

[Flaggie]

And anyway, the 360's have it programmed into them that they automatically blip the throttle on a down change anyway. Even if there was a clutch, Doohan wouldn't need to heel and toe, the computer controls the throttle for a split second. All you do is change gears.

(At least that's what I was told by a Ferrari fan, who should really know)

[elephino]

Ferrari/Alfa Romeo gearbox is their normal manual gearbox and clutch with the clutch controlled by software, so that there is no need for the driver to use the clutch - so there is no clutch pedal and there is no torque converter. In Porsche's Tiptronic, for example, it is an auto box with "manual" changes.

Super Tourers have computers controlling the clutch as well and blip the throttle and all that (as does the Ferrari system).

V8 Supercars - most drivers flat change on the way up the box, but not all don't use the clutch on the way back down. For instance, Mark Skaife uses the clutch on downchanges...not sure about up changes....I think I've seen him do it both ways.

Then there is a car I drove many years ago, a little Daihatsu Charade that had a semi-manual I guess you'd call it. It was a two speed auto box but it needed to be shifted from 1st to 2nd (and back) manually, it wouldn't do it by itself.

[Flaggie]

I recall seeing in cars of Greg Murphy at Adelaide from high up looking down at his feet and he seemed to be clutching every change, up or down, but keeping the boot in in the upshifts.

Also saw a shot of Craig Lowndes at Bathurst and he was flat shifting up, but heel and toeing down the box....

[Crash Test]

Hey, I read in AA today, the problem with flaggies at night is simply to send them to bed!

The reasoning is that at the Nurburgring you can tell when someone is coming up behind you, and flaggies are pointless!

Apparently they will keep a skeleton staff at some points...

Any coments?

[Flaggie]

That's fine Crashy, But what do they do when it turns to that well known substance? Someone's gotta be trackside all the time.

[Crash Test]

Exactly... why have marshalls at all? Most drivers seem to ignore them anyways...

I suppose in the end it should come back to the competitors- would they be happy tearing around the mountain in the middle of the night with nobody watching over them??

[Morris 1100]

Originally posted by Crash Test

I suppose in the end it should come back to the competitors- would they be happy tearing around the mountain in the middle of the night with nobody watching over them??

If it is good enough for the local boy racers it is good enough for the compeditors

[mtpanorama]

Morris,
Thats worked for me in the past, so why change it now.