Obtaining working drawings of wheels

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Hello everybody,

I suppose this could be perceived as more of a rant than a specific question, but I'll post nevertheless.

For the car we're building the braking system is to be completely replaced. AP Racing pedal box, master cylinders, calipers and discs are what will be used. With that comes the fact that nothing is 'bolt on.' The bells will be produced by a firm we are in contact with as well brackets for the radial mount calipers (the car's standard calipers are lug calipers) infact we're going to commission them to produce the lot so all we have to do is pay(!)

As everybody else does we'll be taking the uprights and wheels to the firm and leaving it to them to get on with the job. Except for the wheels which we have chosen to use won't be arriving from Japan until November. Ok.. so we'll just take the uprights along with a working drawing of the wheels we'll be using and let the guys get on with the job. No-can-do. The wheel manufacturer refuses to release drawings of the wheels. They won't say why, just that they 'don't offer that information.' Thus, we're stumped and it's going to put the whole project back 3 months! That'll set us back for the whole of next year as the first few test sessions with the car won't be completed until January instead of November, and any rebuilding if necessary will also have to take place then.

I really can't fathom out why they wouldn't have drawings available/want to release drawings. It seems really odd to me. Surely people asking a racing wheels manufacturer for drawings is a common occurance!?

Has anybody else had experiences like this?

[Robyn Slater]

err-------Buy your wheels off of someone more cooperative?

[Alex Hodgkinson]

..not the most helpful answer there Robyn! The thing is that for other reasons such as the caliper clearence, stud PCD, offsets & J measurement I've not got a great number of options regarding wheel choice. I'm talking about a 18" by 10.5" wide rim here and the disc sits quite close to the wheel mounting face.

Further to my first thread.. who is known to be cooperative?

[coln72]

Surely any custom wheel manufacturer could provide rims to suit your needs re. offset etc. In Australia Simmons would be the go.

[CNHSS1]

try Compomotive in wolverhampton or Image in Tipton fro bespoke wheels

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

I really can't fathom out why they wouldn't have drawings available/want to release drawings. It seems really odd to me. Surely people asking a racing wheels manufacturer for drawings is a common occurance!?

Has anybody else had experiences like this?

Never had a problem like this, but then again I have only ever dealt with UK companies like those mentioned above.

If they won't/can't send drawings, could you perhaps do a drawing of the wheels yourself with the dimensions you know, then mark the dimensions you would like to know on the drawing - e.g. radial clearance in the plane of the mounting face and minimum clearance from the mounting face to the back of the spokes, then fax them the drawing and ask them to add dimensions?

If they say no to that, then I would probably choose another supplier. Image can almost certainly make wheels to your spec, and have a drawing you could work from:

http://www.imagewheels.co.uk/pages/techincal_info.html

Good luck with the Japanese supplier!

[Cameron Winton]

The non-release of drawings may have something to do with them being afraid of a competitor copying them.
I guess this could be a big deal if the wheels are something special. You could get into non disclosure agreements etc but would it be worth the trouble? Espacially dealing with people on the other side of the world

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Cameron Winton

The non-release of drawings may have something to do with them being afraid of a competitor copying them.

I suspect you're right. However, for Alex's enquiry, all they would need to supply would be a drawing showing required clearances - something they probably took into consideration at the design stage.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by CNHSS1

try Compomotive in wolverhampton or Image in Tipton fro bespoke wheels

Compomotive were very helpful in supplying me with details of their wheels and even doing the opposite and working out if my caliper dimensions fitted inside any of their wheels. Unfortunately my solution ended up being new calipers, rather than new wheels. So the least I can do is let you all know how helpful they were.

I still have a set of Compomotive Wheels for a different application and they are very good too!

[ChironWSC]

Hi

We have this problem all the time not just with wheels but other parts also.
If they are a good reputable wheel company they will have a caliper clearance drawing. If you tell them you dont need the outer wheel details etc and all you need is a cross section of the inner part of the wheel they should be ok with that. What company is it? Rays?

Henry

[Alex Hodgkinson]

It would appear that my persistence has paid off.

I received the needed dimensions via email only this morning! I did as Phoenix suggested and sent through a drawing with blank dimensions to fill in.

What I got back was a scanned bit of paper with kanji writing all over it, but most importantly the needed dimensions as well. Problem solved! We can get on with the job..

Yes the wheel manufacturer is RAYS Henry. We didn't deal with them direct, instead through a Japanese exporter/dealer (New Era Parts.) It would appear that New Era have really done a lot to help us here. I think they've been on the phone to RAYS every day for me as well as paying their design department a visit to get my drawing completed.

The wheels in question are these by the way:



Volk RE28. As you can see plenty of effort has been made in allowing for plenty of caliper clearance.

Now that we're sorted for wheels we should be sorted for however long we run this car. I suppose it could become difficult if we need wheels in a hurry because it simply won't be possible, we'll just have to make sure we keep some spare!

I also suspect that they wouldn't release drawings for fear of being copied. However, if a competitor really wanted to copy they'd only have to get hold of one of their wheels and measure it up...

Anyway, *phew* is all I can say!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

I really can't fathom out why they wouldn't have drawings available/want to release drawings. It seems really odd to me. Surely people asking a racing wheels manufacturer for drawings is a common occurance!?

Has anybody else had experiences like this?

It is not. Called Proprietary information by the wheel manufactures. Just like a software company giving out its code, Not going to happen.

and if your getting wheels from Japan, you might want too look at a more local manufacture.

all you really need to know is the backspacing of the wheel, and diameter of the wheel and rim width. From there you can calculate what you need.

Good Luck

[jjordan]

Spoke design and mounting pad height/design have more to do with modern brake caliper clearance than backspace. I know we are a little protective of our design details, about where they go and for what. But, like you said, if you really want to copy a competitor's wheel, we usually just buy one then "plot" it.