Using HANS (aka Frontal Head Restraint, FHR)

[andy97]

Is the angle of belts mandatory or recommended? If it's mandatory, how is it measured accurately and from what datum?

[andy97]

Answered my own question

Ok, just checked the blue book.

Page 189 of the 2016 BB refers. Belts must not be at an angle to the horizontal greater than 20deg above the horizontal plane but it is recommended only that belts do not exceed an angle of 20 deg below the horizontal plane and should have a max angle downwards of 45 degrees to the horizontal.

The horizontal plane being the line through the seat belt holes in the back rest of the seat.

Hope that makes sense.

[Gary Milgrom]

Andy there may be a typo in your post. I have never seen a recommendation for mounting shoulder belts ABOVE the horizontal plane. Belts mounted this way do not work well at all, they slip to the sides and your torso goes right through the middle. Perhaps I have misundersood your post and if so I apologize.

This may be useful. It covers many aspects of cockpit safety including belt mounting specs with and without a FHR. And it trys to not be a sales tool for Simpson or HANS .

We have two versions - YouTube video and PDF. The PDF is only about 4 MB and the Dropbox link should allow you to download and save a copy.

“15 Minutes Can Save Your Life” - A multi-media presentation on easy ways to improve cockpit safety in race cars.
Video – 15 Minutes Can Save Your Life
PDF – 15 Minutes Can Save Your Life

Thank you, GM

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Gary Milgrom

. Please take a few moments to familiarize yourself with these instructions.

Instruction Manuals
HANS Instruction Manual
Hybrid Instruction Manual

Thank you,
Gary Milgrom, VP
HANS Performance Products
info (at) hansdevice (dot) com
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

Thanks Gary, some very good tips, particularly crossing the belts behind the driver if there is a distance to the mounting point, buckle positions on the chest with regard to the neck, and use of side nets.

"Use 2" belts, unless you are over 200 lbs or doing over 210km/h, then you should use 3" belts." ???!!!

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by JohnD

I officiated at a stage rally last weekend. This year, most people in motor sport now have to wear and use a HANS device or similar (FHR), and this was the first event I had been on where that has been true. It became painfully obvious that many drivers and co-drivers were in the same boat.

My Rescue crew leader first noticed that a co-driver's helmet strap was not attached to his HANS, so we had a look at the next car's crew - and their straps were undone too! And another, and another, until we asked the Stage Commander to help, as we were holding the stage up. We were on Stage 3, not the very first, and by the time the field had gone through, we had found at least 20% of the crews weren't using their FHRs correctly. I'm sure that this was due to inexperience, as this was first rally of the year for most of them.

Drivers of 'historic' cars are not obliged to wear a HANS, pre-1968 for rallies, pre-1977 for circuits, Sprints and Hill Climbs (https://www.msauk.or...fhrguidance.pdf) but even so, I would urge you to do so. And I would be even more eager that you wear it properly! Get someone to check it for you, before you get in, and then after you are seated, at least for your first event!

John

this is probably the link you wanted
https://www.msauk.org/assets/fhrguidance.pdf

Scrutineers probably should be at the first stage and random stages after that.

Stage Commander well with his rights to refuse anyone at the line with incorrect safety gear. Must have done his head in with so many ruining the 'flow' of the stage.

Is there a serious problem with the HANS documentation or are folks not bothered to read it? Since its been around for twenty years, you would have thought it was well known...

[Peter Mallett]

I've been using one for many years now. I keep the helmet and HANs connected and put them on before I get in the car. Then I just have to worry about the belts. Egress and entry to the car are slightly compromised but I at least know that all is connected properly.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I'm pretty sure the MSA don't allow 'home drilled' holes in helmets. I bought a new Stilo helmet with pre-fitted posts at the end of last year (my old helmet couldn't be used from this year onwards anyway) so I'm ok for now

I know that scrutineers are good but is it possible to tell who drilled a hole?

[Geraint Owen]

IIRC when I bought a Simpson Hybrid a couple of years ago, it came with instructions on how and where to drill the holes in the helmet if they werent already there. I actually followed this through to see if they were supposed to be in the same place as the HANS posts that were already in the helmet

The Hybrid quick release clips are easy enough to clip into place whilst sat in the car on your own. Plus they are either on or not, there is no half way house. I tend to belt up with them disconnected then clip into place. I usually load myself into the car and belt up without external help and havent had any problems, except at Goodwood when the drivers briefing overran to such an extent that there wasnt actually time to get the belts on before cars were leaving the assembly area

[Gary Milgrom]

Originally Posted by wnut

"Use 2" belts, unless you are over 200 lbs or doing over 210km/h, then you should use 3" belts." ???!!!

This is because the 2" lap belts fit a recess in your pelvis or hip (not sure) and hold the pelvis more securely in an accident. It has been proven that stopping of the motion of the pelvis is key to limiting injuries to other areas, like spine and neck. This is explained in the "15 Minutes" presentation I posted.

The comment about 3" belts for large drivers and high speeds is aimed at drag racers.

Thank You, GM

[JohnD]

Gary,
Went to my local, excellent motor sport supplier yesterday (Road & Stage, Morecambe) to try out some FHRs. As you say, wearing a 'classic' HANS I felt that forward and downwards movement was unrestricted, to my surprise, with less but adequate side to side movement.
I also tried a Hybrid, and found it far more restrictive in both directions, especially one, because the FIA homologation label jammed under the clip that allows the strap to slide! Also, the chest strap worried me, as it seemed inevitable that it would ride up, under my armpits, when I'm sure it is supposed to sit lower down, across the wide part of the chest. Am I wrong?

My plan is to get my race car (it's also road legal) out, take down to R&S and sit in it while I try them again.

I now can better forgive the rally crews for their apparent rebellion! Fixing the tether clips is far more difficult that expected. No doubt easier with practice and use.
John

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Fixing the tether clips is far more difficult that expected. No doubt easier with practice and use.
John

It's far easier to fit the tether clips to the helmet when you're sat in the car and got the belts on. I'd been sat on the sofa at home practicing clipping them on and taking them off again and it was a pain in the backside (I was trying to work out how much extra time I'd need to add to our pre-stage routine to account for faffing with the clips), once we were actually in the car and belted (not tight but on) it was so much easier - it barely adds any time at all to the process.

The routine is now:

Balaclava on
HANS on
Get in car
Plug intercom into helmet
Put helmet on
Belts on (but not tight)
Clip on tethers
Check belts are properly seated on HANS
Tighten belts
Have fun

[Cliff Ryan]

Gary,

Thanks for posting the link to your video, I have been using a Hybrid Pro Rage for the last three years and recently had the tethers changed by your agent at Indy to the FIA ones.

My restraint doesn't carry the FIA certification logo, just the SFI one, which previously wasn't a problem, but now that they are compulsory in UK I will need the FIA certification label.

Can I send my restraint back to you for recertification, or do I need to buy a new one? I have emailed via the contact form on the Simpson website, but haven't received a reply as yet.

Many Thanks,

Cliff

[JohnD]

Even better than Gary's test bed pictures, this video shows an in-car view of a sudden-stop rally incident, where one crew was in an FHR and the other not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE

John

[DaveGT6]

John,

That is the very in car footage that made me decide that I had to start wearing HANS.

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

John,

That is the very in car footage that made me decide that I had to start wearing HANS.

Next time we are out together Dave you will have to let me have a try of your gear. I have just bought the new Arai 2015 std which does have HANS attachment points but I still just cannot see how I could get in my car or drive it with a FHR.

The footage is very stark.
N.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by andy97

Is the angle of belts mandatory or recommended? If it's mandatory, how is it measured accurately and from what datum?

I've been assured by a scrutineer that it is "recommended" so you cannot be failed on it. However, not all scrutineers may realise that, he only learned it at an MSA forum in Taunton last week so it may be slow to promulgate amongst all scrutes.

HOWEVER....

My understanding is that given the HANS is designed to work in that range of belt angles, one would be particularly stupid to do other than convert the car to comply. Too shallow an angle and the belt will slip off the device, too steep and it is likely to break your shoulder even in an accident where the FHR is not designed to work. It's like fitting a seat and only using pop rivets to hold it in place. you wouldn't do it because the consequences of doing it wrong are more dangerous than the consequences of not doing it.

[JimW]

That's extremely sensibly Max.

It will, of course, never catch on with some people.

Jim

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

Next time we are out together Dave you will have to let me have a try of your gear. I have just bought the new Arai 2015 std which does have HANS attachment points but I still just cannot see how I could get in my car or drive it with a FHR.

The footage is very stark.
N.

Whereabouts "oop North" are you - if you're anywhere near me you are welcome to borrow my HANS to try it.......Haven't tried it myself yet, mind!

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Whereabouts "oop North" are you - if you're anywhere near me you are welcome to borrow my HANS to try it.......Haven't tried it myself yet, mind!

Thanks for the offer but I am way up into the hills near Alston.
I tried a FHR at Tweeks the other week and the issue to me seemed to be the space taken up at the rear of the head. This I think would make wearing and driving very difficult in my car the way it is

The issue for me is purely space but I see that Dave in his Grantura is managing so it may be a case of seeing how it all works through the season.

N.

[Geraint Owen]

the Simpson Hybrid type may give you more room behind your head.....worth a look

[gt917]

Originally Posted by Geraint Owen

the Simpson Hybrid type may give you more room behind your head.....worth a look

Certainly does for me when I tried one at RaceRetro yesterday. I took my Bell open face helmet with me to try different Hans devices, but none of them worked for me. They all tended to push the back of the helmet forward and with the seat angle I was most concerned about (Porsche 917 and 30 degree lay back seat) were impossible to use in a simulated driving position on the floor with the wall acting as my bulkhead.

Finally, and feeling a little worried and desperate, I tried a Simpson harness, and bingo, it was perfect, and whats more it is totally useable at any angle and in all three of my cars.

Little in the way of framing, more in strapping, so I thought wow, this will be a huge saving in money over a Hans ......... wrong .............. £495 was the best price I could get. One should not put a price tag on safety, but I was totally amazed by that figure.

[Geraint Owen]

I have the quick release Simpson fittings rather than the normal Hans fittings and find them to be really easy. Glad you found the Hybrid worth a look

[Mike Bell]

Just been reading about the new Schroth 'SHR Flex' due soon, which appears to be another device that can cope with different seat angles, and without having to be adjusted in order to so. Development and improvements continue.....

US retail is $575, so expect it will be about the same in Sterling!

Info- https://www.schrothracing.com (more info if you click on 'pre order now')