[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 20 of 21

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Who is Sprnkles?

EffectiveSprinkles, to use their full forum name.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Greem

If I'd been there in orange overalls I'd have reported the facts. If asked for an opinion I'd have said it was 50/50, a racing incident.

It seems a lot of people agree with that, but hey ho. Both to blame or neither, they both lost out. That's the fact.

Charlie and Co did not seem to see it as a 50/50.

I hope you saw the in car footage before it was taken down, and Ocon's reaction, "You saw what happened."

Allowing Max to get away with his "robust" behavior just means that it is impossible for anyone to race him, because he will simply take them out!
How many contacts has he been responsible for, this year, during his F1 career, in the lower categories (Bella?)?

There is also a stewarding trend that if someone does something boneheaded and someone else manages not to hit them, but spins in avoiding them, no penalty is issued to the offender, because nobody likes to see penalties imposed! This is just plain wrong and encourages bad behavior! In order to really dice someone you have to be able to trust that person, you will place each other at risk, and one person cannot be allowed to simply knock the other off, it is behavior Max has been getting away with!

Lewis had the incident taped, "You had more to lose!"

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

EffectiveSprinkles, to use their full forum name.

And here I thought PM was referring to Danica...but that would be Sparkles, wouldn't it?

[Greem]

I did see the in car footage. I wouldn't have seen it on the day though

Personally I think Ocon's penalty was unfair, I felt it was 50/50 and I still think that.

Other opinions are available (obviously).

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

EffectiveSprinkles, to use their full forum name.

it appears both Sprinkles and another forum member were Effective in being a Guy not contributing to the F1 forum anymore...

oh, and Verstappen could have avoided contact.

[Akrapovic]

People say ocon could’ve waited until the back straight, which is fair enough. But he did already try in a straight. Remember that the reason he was on the outside of T1 in the first place was because Max defended. So would Max have just defended again?

[Greem]

We'll never know.

And thank goodness for that!

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

People say ocon could’ve waited until the back straight, which is fair enough. But he did already try in a straight. Remember that the reason he was on the outside of T1 in the first place was because Max defended. So would Max have just defended again?

[RWill2073]

I'm a few laps down here, but I'm coming through with my opinion anyway!

Man, what has this forum become? The last few pages have been more like I remember, but before that, it has been painful seeing the discourse dragged down so low again.

I readily admit I'm a verstappen fan. And that may cloud my thoughts some, so I am attempting to be aware of that. But I think the penalty was justified for Ocon. It looks to me like as the leader of the race, a rare occurrence happened, having a car trying to pass to get a lap back. That is already out of the ordinary. Then, through turn 1, the leader successfully defended his position. Going through turn 2, it may have been a case of assuming a lapped car was going to back out of it after failing to get it done through the first corner. Hence, the turn in without regard to Ocon being there. Can anyone honestly say they would expect a lapped car to put up a multiple corner fight with the leader? I get one try at it, as rare as that is, but going again through turn 2?

Verstappen definitely could have paid more attention to the lapped car, or been more careful. But, hamilton was barely 2 seconds behind him. If he got a backmarker stuck in front of him, it would allow Hamilton to close in and get drs down the straight the next lap or two. I haven't read too many here considering how much Ocon being ahead for a few laps would affect verstappen's race. I'm sure that goes into the decision to defend.

While hamilton looks good with his post race comments, let's stop pretending things they say to each other and to the public post race are authentic. He had a chance to needle one of the guys that will be his biggest rivals in the near future. If he can further get under his skin there, he surely would try to. I know if I just had a wreckless move by someone way down the fioed ruin a win for me, having the guy who won, who just wrapped up a championship telling me anything right there other than "that sucks" or something would further infuriate me. Hamilton's comments weren't some altruistic advice to verstappen, imo, and more of a head game play. Plus, if he gets verstappen considering toning down his aggression, it makes things easier for Hamilton.

By the way, I said around Mexico, when I vented my annoyances about Hamilton that he lives a charmed life... This is what I mean. He is gifted so many results it's ridiculous. Whether it he Ferrari quality control issues, Vettel brain fade or ocon silliness, there he is, getting another gift. And I fully admit he's the best on the grid right now.

I agree with many here that it was ocon's fault, but verstappen is not blameless. Seems a reasonable way to view it, which I guess is why it was met with such argumentative replies by the extreme, point scoring, debate club wannabe posters pretending to have a discussion, while actually trying to have a contentious debate.

Lastly, I feel bad for verstappen. Being so much under his dads thumb, he had no chance of being normal. He was bound to get some of that boorish behavior. He needs some quality role models to sit him down and straighten out his antics off track. Unfortunately, Horner went the other way and condoned it at a time when he needed to be a positive influence on a young man who needs one. We have seen them provide a glimpse of this, around Monaco time, when they actually got a little frustrated with his crashing, and we saw a positive result. Too bad they didnt do it again here.

And about the "assault" or "violence": it has no place, except we have seen champions do just that with senna and schumacher and more. I don't like it, and I hope it is a flaw verstappen corrects, but again, look at his biggest role model and influence. I don't, however, think it will preclude him from winning a championship.

[VIVA GT]

OK, OK. I've already said on here that I was on holiday, so didn't see the race and since returning home, decided to delete my recording of it as I just wasn't going to have time to watch it. Based on what has been said on here I've formed the opinion that it was a 50/50 thing, maybe Ocon shouldn't have been trying to overtake so forcibly (but he's a racing driver, getting past the car in front is what they do for a living), but Verstappen shouldn't have turned into Ocon which took him out of the race (but he's a racing driver and defending his position is what they do). So, regarding the 'incident' I give them both the benefit of the doubt, a shrug of the shoulders and that's it.
However, Verstappens behaviour after the race physically attacking Ocon, especially after (apparently, I didn't see the race remember) announcing his intentions to do so over the radio is just totally unacceptable and for me, removed Verstappens 'benefit of the doubt'. He went for Ocon deliberately off track, and I
can't think why his on track behaviour should be viewed in any other way either.
Plus, to say that this type of behaviour has happened years ago by 'other' superstar drivers like Piquet & Senna does not make this behaviour acceptable today, times/attitudes have changed. In the same way that the way that women were treated years ago (for example) does not make that treatment acceptable nowadays.

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed. *post count, remember post count..........

Nearly Abu Dhabi.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Nearly Abu Dhabi.

I thought it took me a long time to get to work this morning.

[Mike Bell]

We need someone with time on their hands to analyse the thread and determine the totals of Ocon and Verstappen supporters, plus what percentage of the thread was taken up with just the one incident discussion.....

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

We need someone with time on their hands to analyse the thread and determine the totals of Ocon and Verstappen supporters, plus what percentage of the thread was taken up with just the one incident discussion.....

Verstappen 49.5% : 49.5% Ocon (1% on the fence)

99.9% one incident

Anyone who disagrees with that is wrong. Obviously.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Verstappen 49.5% : 49.5% Ocon (1% on the fence)

99.9% one incident

Anyone who disagrees with that is wrong. Obviously.

I disagree - I am not on the fence, I feel both drivers were in the wrong.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I disagree - I am not on the fence, I feel both drivers were in the wrong.

You are therefore included in both counts

Anyway, I'm done being silly for one day.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway, I'm done being silly for one day.

Oh no you aren't!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Greem

Verstappen 49.5% : 49.5% Ocon (1% on the fence)

99.9% one incident

Anyone who disagrees with that is wrong. Obviously.

You're only able to say that with the benefit of hindsight...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

We need someone with time on their hands to analyse the thread and determine the totals of Ocon and Verstappen supporters, plus what percentage of the thread was taken up with just the one incident discussion.....

A tad laborious, so instead why not a poll?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

You are therefore included in both counts

50%, 50% and 1% on the fence.

We can't accept a 100% figure - it's too simple!!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

A tad laborious, so instead why not a poll?

Err, it was meant as a joke......

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Err, it was meant as a joke......

Even so, a poll would be interesting.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

By the way, I said around Mexico, when I vented my annoyances about Hamilton that he lives a charmed life... This is what I mean. He is gifted so many results it's ridiculous. Whether it he Ferrari quality control issues, Vettel brain fade or ocon silliness, there he is, getting another gift. And I fully admit he's the best on the grid right now.

for sure this year there was Bottas getting unlucky with debris at Baku and SV crashing out at Hockenheim...but is that a charmed life or just a savvy driver keeping his nose clean and taking advantage of the misfortune of others?

not enough credit going to drivers who avoid incidents all together.

although i do like your suggestion that post race LH was more about playing some mind games with young Max.

sets the stage nicely for next year and beyond!

[S griffin]

Wouldn’t surprise me if he was playing mindgames, as he knows Max is gonna be his big threat in the near future

[Mike Bell]

I thought he was just stating the bleeding obvious.....

For anyone who has time for a read, interesting piece on the subject by Doug Nye on the Goodwood RRC site- https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/column...BER856,NFT2D,1

[Aysedasi]

Very enjoyable indeed.... It was another world - another planet almost - in those days......