Murdoch (AUS/USA) planning bid to take over F1

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I would have thought sponsors might like pay TV, as they can advertise their products during the commercial breaks.

By Pay TV I am referring to subscription services like Sky Sports, not FTA commercial broadcasters.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

By Pay TV I am referring to subscription services like Sky Sports, not FTA commercial broadcasters.

Sky have commercials.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Sky have commercials.

Yes, but that's not the issue, the issue is that they are encrypted and ITV/Channel 4/Channel 5 are not.

[jab]

If Murdoch was to take over, it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with more deals like Germany - I can see F1 back on ITV here with ads, but also the return of Bernievision with no ads. That way they keep all the viewers by staying on FTA and squeeze more money out of it with the hardcore that pay for Bernievision. It didn't work last time but I think it would now, because Murdoch and co would present and promote it better. Also you'd get much more effective promotion online

Having said that, the thought of News Corp in charge of F1 terrifies me and I may boycott it even if it stays on FTA if we end up with a Murdoch in charge. Because they will have an influence on the show - Bernie has always been good to F1 because he has helped keep it pure, but I've always feared outsiders coming in and shaking things up to make it more interesting without any regard to the principles of the sport, and News Corp would fit that perfectly

And that the Agnellis are involved too...that's a nightmare scenario, but I guess the idea is that they won't be the only team co-owning the sport at the end of it, that it's a ploy to get the others on board. Which I'm equally not keen on

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Yes, but that's not the issue, the issue is that they are encrypted and ITV/Channel 4/Channel 5 are not.

Yep, so you pay to watch but there are ways round that but I don't like on principle the idea of F1 not being available on FTA. In the case of Sky they have a near monopoly on televised sport as it is over here.

[wnut]

Ending FTA will be the death of F1. If you look at sports that have taken Pay TV money they all seem to go backwards rapidly.

Cricket in Australia is a prime example of a sport going to PayTV and dramatically eroding its supporter base.

F1 may be saved by the fact that there is room for the model proposed above of FTA races and bells and whistle coverage on PayTV.

Pay TV only coverage of F1 would kill off the large supporter base very quickly, the sponsors are all looking for global mass market coverage, and without these huge companies being involved the sport will be too expensive to be sustainable.

[Casper]

You in the UK have to remember the TV world in the rest of the planet does not work in the same way. In most other places else FTA has adverts, copious amounts of them. Remembering that, going to pay tv is no different for us, the adverts continue. Whatever Murdoch has in mind will be global and the UK will just cop it like the rest of us. The UK is not the centre of the TV universe unfortunately for you guys.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Casper

You in the UK have to remember the TV world in the rest of the planet does not work in the same way. In most other places else FTA has adverts, copious amounts of them. Remembering that, going to pay tv is no different for us, the adverts continue. Whatever Murdoch has in mind will be global and the UK will just cop it like the rest of us. The UK is not the centre of the TV universe unfortunately for you guys.

There are commercials on Sky Sports as it is but what Sky does with its movie channels is pack the commercials befor the movie and after it, so there is uninterrupted viewing. Murdoch's no fool and I can see him doing the same thing with F1.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

There are commercials on Sky Sports as it is but what Sky does with its movie channels is pack the commercials befor the movie and after it, so there is uninterrupted viewing. Murdoch's no fool and I can see him doing the same thing with F1.

There you go, thinking in domestic UK TV terms. There is a whole world out there that enjoys TV in a manner you have never seen. For sure the whole thing would not revolve around the UK as it is not the biggest market or the biggest potential market, the latter being the most important a point BE has also recognised. The established markets have reached a point where as others have said they have most probably matured and will now contract to a stable size, after all a lot of people sample something then grow tired of it for a lot of reasons and stop watching. It amuses me that everyone sees this issue as a domestic UK issue when it clearly is not but them most that contribute to this forum are in the UK I guess.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Casper

There you go, thinking in domestic UK TV terms. There is a whole world out there that enjoys TV in a manner you have never seen. For sure the whole thing would not revolve around the UK as it is not the biggest market or the biggest potential market, the latter being the most important a point BE has also recognised. The established markets have reached a point where as others have said they have most probably matured and will now contract to a stable size, after all a lot of people sample something then grow tired of it for a lot of reasons and stop watching. It amuses me that everyone sees this issue as a domestic UK issue when it clearly is not but them most that contribute to this forum are in the UK I guess.

Do you happen know what the biggest market is for F1?

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Casper

You in the UK have to remember the TV world in the rest of the planet does not work in the same way. In most other places else FTA has adverts, copious amounts of them. Remembering that, going to pay tv is no different for us, the adverts continue. Whatever Murdoch has in mind will be global and the UK will just cop it like the rest of us. The UK is not the centre of the TV universe unfortunately for you guys.

Isn't it the British (or prehaps now the Germans) that have the highest TV audience? If it is, then yes the UK is the centre of the F1 TV universe.
It's the third most popular televised sport here after the Olympics and the World Cup.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by beau1

Isn't it the British (or prehaps now the Germans) that have the highest TV audience? If it is, then yes the UK is the centre of the F1 TV universe.
It's the third most popular televised sport here after the Olympics and the World Cup.

I thought the Premier League was more popular than F1.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought the Premier League was more popular than F1.

I'm not sure. It probably is, I've never really understood the context behind F1 being the third most popular event, especially considering those other two events happen every 4 years.
Would the 19 most popular Premier League Games last season have a higher British audience than last years 19 F1 races? I think the Premier would probably win but it would be interesting to find out.

I'd have thought the 6 nations championship would possibly rival most races too.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought the Premier League was more popular than F1.

In overall popularity then yes it would be – but based on TV viewers it may not be as it’s on Sky Sports rather than FTA

[Marbot]

It's estimated that more viewers will watch a live Man UTD vs Chelsea soccer match than will watch an F1 race....in the US.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's estimated that more viewers will watch a live Man UTD vs Chelsea soccer match than will watch an F1 race....in the US.

I doubt either got a look in this weekend, what with the playoffs in the NBA and a host of games in MLB.

[JamesH]

Difficult to compare F1 with footballs big events. In footy the viewer base is spread over a lot of teams, and only two can play in a big event as any one time. Although there are some who would watch any old footy match, usually it's the fans of the teams taking part. So the audience is limited to those fans. With F1, all the teams take part in the same race at the same time, so you get the whole of the viewer base watching the same event.

[Casper]

To repeat what I wrote earlier, it is the POTENTIAL market that has not been reached that he is interested in not the present one that is slowly losing viewers. Why would he buy into something that is slowly losing audience without a plan to expand the market? As I said the UK will cop what comes out of this if it happens as the potential market is way bigger than any single market.

[csirl]

A lot of people on this thread are talking about FTA and pay TV and I think there are some crossed wires as to what pay TV means.

In my experience there are 3 type of TV, not 2:

A) FTA = totally free - can be picked up by any TV with small aerial.

B) Subscription TV = paying a small monthly subscription to a cable TV or satellite TV company for a suite of channels (ala Sky, UPC etc.).

C) Pay Per View TV = paying a fee to see a specific event and paying per event (ala some boxing bouts & WWE in many countries).

Even with Newscorp, I dont think F1 will move to scenario C above. I think at most it will be B e.g. will be shown on Sky Sports rather than BBC for UK viewers. I dont know about other parts of the world, but in Europe and the US, there would be very few sports fans who dont already subscribe to a basic cable/satellite package.

[csirl]

As for BE, I think if he is clever, he will retire at the end of 2012.

I think the teams have decided what direction they want to go in and have decided that BE isnt it. I think that during the last attempted coup they decided that there was no point in starting a civil war in the sport as there were only 2-3 years of the concorde agreement to run. Whether they go with the current rights holders under new management or go to a brand new series is probably academic - one way or another F1 will be different in 2013. I think the bulk of teams will stick together and collectively decide where they want to go, so there is no danger of two rival series battling each other.

I think the and am hopeful that the new F1 will be more competitive as the teams will probably get a higher percentage of the income and it will probably be divided more evenly and transparently, which should even out the playing field and give the lesser teams some financial stability. I can see the sport becoming more global - outside the UK there is a lot of dismay at the way that the current regime favours UK based teams at the expense of those of other countries - having 8 of 12 teams in the UK is something that does not appeal to a global audience. Just turn back the clock a couple of decades and you had multiple teams in all the core motorsport countries in mainland Europe - France, Germany, Italy - and some teams from elsewhere. One by one, the non-UK teams have been eliminated and replaced by UK based ones.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by csirl

A lot of people on this thread are talking about FTA and pay TV and I think there are some crossed wires as to what pay TV means.

In my experience there are 3 type of TV, not 2:

A) FTA = totally free - can be picked up by any TV with small aerial.

B) Subscription TV = paying a small monthly subscription to a cable TV or satellite TV company for a suite of channels (ala Sky, UPC etc.).

C) Pay Per View TV = paying a fee to see a specific event and paying per event (ala some boxing bouts & WWE in many countries).

That is correct.

Even with Newscorp, I dont think F1 will move to scenario C above. I think at most it will be B e.g. will be shown on Sky Sports rather than BBC for UK viewers. I dont know about other parts of the world, but in Europe and the US, there would be very few sports fans who dont already subscribe to a basic cable/satellite package.

There is no chance about it going PPV like boxing, but even scenario B as you outlined is what is being talked about in these (possibly accurate) prophecies of doom. IMO A is best for the sport. Also, basic cable and satellite packages don't include Sky Sports, isn't each channel £18 p/m or something?

[fomoco]

I remember when Murdoch went to the old Dart to run a news paper. The rest as they say is history.

[browney]

Maybe everyone is all wrong and one of the things Murdoch can see (after talking soo much about charging for internet news content) is that F1 is not taking advantage of the growing market that will pay for full internet coverage.

I think it is Amazing Bernie hasn't worked out that he can charge 10 bucks a weekend and make heaps money for nothing by streaming his coverage over the internet. I like the MotoGP model, you get decent coverage on FTA television (commercial station with adds in Australia) but you can pay more for practice and special coverage streamed off the website.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by csirl

As for BE, I think if he is clever, he will retire at the end of 2012.

I think the teams have decided what direction they want to go in and have decided that BE isnt it. I think that during the last attempted coup they decided that there was no point in starting a civil war in the sport as there were only 2-3 years of the concorde agreement to run. Whether they go with the current rights holders under new management or go to a brand new series is probably academic - one way or another F1 will be different in 2013. I think the bulk of teams will stick together and collectively decide where they want to go, so there is no danger of two rival series battling each other.

I think the and am hopeful that the new F1 will be more competitive as the teams will probably get a higher percentage of the income and it will probably be divided more evenly and transparently, which should even out the playing field and give the lesser teams some financial stability. I can see the sport becoming more global - outside the UK there is a lot of dismay at the way that the current regime favours UK based teams at the expense of those of other countries - having 8 of 12 teams in the UK is something that does not appeal to a global audience. Just turn back the clock a couple of decades and you had multiple teams in all the core motorsport countries in mainland Europe - France, Germany, Italy - and some teams from elsewhere. One by one, the non-UK teams have been eliminated and replaced by UK based ones.

I think you are incorrect with regard to most sports fans already having Sky. Agreed that many footy supporters do, but not everyone is a football supporter and F1 supporter. I don't think I am alone in not having Sky, and intending NEVER having Sky. With the advent of Freeview HD, Sky advantage of HD content has gone. You can get very good Freeview HD HD recorders, so Sky+ is old hat. Sky has little to recomend it technically. It's only the content, and the problem with paying for content is that a lot of people won't pay for it! I would think the F1 audience will drop (faster) if it goes to Sky. That would be bad for the teams, as the sponsor money would reduce. They may have short term benefits from getting more income from Sky than BE gices them, but once the money dries up....

How many people here who don't have Sky would be willing to pay £325/year to watch F1? remember, Sky sports in HD is £30/month over and above the standard subscription.

[csirl]

Originally Posted by JamesH

I think you are incorrect with regard to most sports fans already having Sky.

I'm not sure. Most packages that people pay for include more than just Sky Sports - usually include other channels such as ESPN, Eurosport, Setanta etc. and to be honest there is not much sport that isnt on one of these channels already, so it would be very difficult to call yourself a TV sports fan if you are stuck with domestic/freeview services. Interestingly, these channels also carry the bulk of all motorsport coverage e.g. GP2, GP3, Indycars, LeMans, Superleague, European F3, Formula 2, NASCAR, ALM etc. etc. etc. so these channels must already be very popular among motorsport fans.

Maybe I live in a different part of the world to you, but where I live it is unheard of for someone not to have Sky, UPC or something similar - it would be as unusual as someone saying they dont have electricity or indoor plumbing.