GT2 replaced by GT3 ..... ACO new idea

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by supercarS7

Why is it when a team wins the world series they are declared world champions? probably same set of logic.

Le Mans is more like an all-star game. Some people make it on legitimate performance and some for "other" reasons. that;s not to say that the teams that make it for "other" reasons arent worthy.

Well if we must use the analogy.
Then, when a team wins the World Series they have played all the teams in their own league and several from the other. And it is derived from one league (ALMS) playing the other league (LMS). It is not awarded to a single (FIA/SRO) leagues winningest team.
Way different logic.

No Le Mans is the equivalent of the 'World Series' where two leagues come together to contest with their best teams against each other to declare an overall 'World Champion'!

L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by supercarS7

Le Mans is more like an all-star game. Some people make it on legitimate performance and some for "other" reasons. that;s not to say that the teams that make it for "other" reasons arent worthy.

Supercar, logic does not apply to those who are infatuated with LeMans; back when it was an open race and anyone could play, "world" may very well could have been applied, but now that it is an invite race, with special hoops to jump through, your analogy is spot on.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

What means more to the average person, Winning the LeMans 24 Hour or World GT Champion?


Many ppl believe that any race series that does not accept manufactures teams will still be 2nd rate racing

Ahh, for the day when the Daytona and LeMans races were unique entities that while governed by different rules, made available race space for vehicle interchange.
Oh for the days when providing quality competition was king; not narcissistic arrogance.(That applies to both speedways)

[AU N EGL]

Oh come on Bob. We all want the days of the unrestricted Can-Am races to come back.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

First off, there are 4 seperate races going on, on track, at the same time, at Le Mans. The winner in every class, wins Le Mans.

Maybe I took AU N EGL's post (when he said "What means more to the average person, Winning the LeMans 24 Hour or World GT Champion?") too literally and then you took my post literally.

For an average person and with that I mean also persons that are not exactly huge motorsport fans, there is only the overall victory.

The expectation that a GT car is to win overall is far fetched, at best. To discount the feat of winning class at Le Mans is utterly ludicrous.

It wasn't really my opinion, but an average person might think that way.

The competitors at Le Mans are the best in the world! I frankly do not see how someone could be declared 'World Champion' without competing in the pinnacle Sports Car race in the world!

I already once said why should FIA GT deserve the WC mandate when not all the best ones are there (of course answers is simple because FIA GT = FIA). So we agree. But the new "branding" will surely help FIA GT but could overshadow the others.

[HORNDAWG]

L.P.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by deggis

So we agree. But the new "branding" will surely help FIA GT but could overshadow the others.

I think that was part of the ACO press release at the LM24 that the ACO and FIA PLUS the WMSC were all working togther for one set of rules, both for cars and races.

We can all speculate, but we must also wait until the end of November for any anoucments on the 2010 rules. Plus some 2009 bridge rules ?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I think that was part of the ACO press release at the LM24 that the ACO and FIA PLUS the WMSC were all working togther for one set of rules, both for cars and races.

I don't follow what you mean... with "new brand" I meant the world championship "mandate" in FIA GT. I didn't mean regs.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by deggis

I don't follow what you mean... with "new brand" I meant the world championship "mandate" in FIA GT. I didn't mean regs.

What 'Mandate"??

[deggis]

Blessing from FIA to declare it a world championship?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by deggis

Blessing from FIA to declare it a world championship?

I though the FIA, ACO and the WMSC nixxed the GT World Championship Idea back in June ?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by deggis

Blessing from FIA to declare it a world championship?

What criteria do they have to fulfill to gain World Championship status?

The ETCC had stable S2000 regulations, multiple manufacturer's and privateers, and a stable calendar to which they could ad few fly away events.

FIA GT has no 2009/2010 regulations in place, no manufacturer's, intend to make wholsale changes to the calendar with few events actually confirmed, and intend to have seperate GT1 and GT2 series, each with 20+ cars, yet current grids number around 30 in total.

Whats to stop the rival International GT Open applying for World Championship status from 2010?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JAG

What criteria do they have to fulfill to gain World Championship status?

Races on 3 continents and the blessing from FIA.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I though the FIA, ACO and the WMSC nixxed the GT World Championship Idea back in June ?

Not according to the press conference a week ago...

How come this still seems to be unclear here?

http://www.planetlemans.com/2008/08/...ss-conference/

Was this link here already?

Originally Posted by JAG

What criteria do they have to fulfill to gain World Championship status?

Special criteria

[AU N EGL]

\Was that not an SRO press conference?

I think that idea was presented to the FIA / ACO / WMSC for the Second time.

SRO IIRC is not a member of the WMSC and putting out ideas for events, and is not a rule maker. ALso IIRC the World Motor Sports Counsel( GT Manufactures and GT teams, the FIA and ACO rejected the idea of a GT World Championships only this past few months ago.

We will see when the NEW rules come out the end of NOV this year for the 2009 / 2010 rules.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Races on 3 continents and the blessing from FIA.

Quality of the grid etc isn't taken into consideration?

Ratel is on record as saying his biggest regret is allowing th International GT Open to exist, growing out of the Spanish GT Series. I can see this series being attractive to European GT teams, while it's free'er regs allow a greater diversity of cars, kind of like BPR GT in '94/'95.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JAG

Quality of the grid etc isn't taken into consideration?

I assume yes.

But if they keep the current quality of teams and drivers that would be no obstacle for turning FIA GT into a FIA WGTC.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JAG

Ratel is on record as saying his biggest regret is allowing th International GT Open to exist, growing out of the Spanish GT Series. I can see this series being attractive to European GT teams, while it's free'er regs allow a greater diversity of cars, kind of like BPR GT in '94/'95.

Which cars are taken part besides the Porsche, Ferrari and Sunred?

Porsche and Ferrari race in class 1 (= GT2), the Sunred in class 2 (= Group 2, like the Mosler in FIA GT? And therefore the Sunred can race in Group 2 class of FIA GT?) and GT3 cars race in class 3.

[cmk]

Well, in previous seasons all 3 marques plus Mosler were in contention for overall wins, though now the Mosler presence in the series has dropped to effectively 0, and the Sunred cars are not much better (1 fast, 1 not). That being said, 4 GT2 marques battling it out for wins was better than we've seen anywhere else in a good long while, when it has been Ferrari vs. Porsche, with Panoz playing spoiler during a year when Ferrari was weak (the 360 GTC year) and on the ascendancy again (the first 430 season). The fact that 2 of those were de facto GT2s rather than de jure GT2s also speaks in favour of it being a 'freer' sort of competitive series.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I assume yes.

But if they keep the current quality of teams and drivers that would be no obstacle for turning FIA GT into a FIA WGTC.

But what happens if they split GT1 and GT2, it becomes threadbare if they don't attract a multitude of new teams.

The GT Opens wild card is they can bring in GT3 cars if times get tough, the FIA GT1 World Championship, IMO, will have a tough time attacting 10+ fulltime GT1 teams, while the GT2 teams may feel they are once again the support act, playing second fiddle to the GT1 World Championship.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

\Was that not an SRO press conference?

I think that idea was presented to the FIA / ACO / WMSC for the Second time.

SRO IIRC is not a member of the WMSC and putting out ideas for events, and is not a rule maker. ALso IIRC the World Motor Sports Counsel( GT Manufactures and GT teams, the FIA and ACO rejected the idea of a GT World Championships only this past few months ago.

We will see when the NEW rules come out the end of NOV this year for the 2009 / 2010 rules.

I guess you are right

"The FIA World Motor Sport Council will make a decision regarding the rules and calendar at the end of this year."

[JAG]

Reading the Bears blog, could we see GT2 manufactuers split from the FIA?

Right now it's the Manufacturs/ACO/LMS/ALMS favouring GT2 vs Ratel/FIA GT and wholesale changes.

[supercarS7]

Originally Posted by JAG

Reading the Bears blog, could we see GT2 manufactuers split from the FIA?

Right now it's the Manufacturs/ACO/LMS/ALMS favouring GT2 vs Ratel/FIA GT and wholesale changes.

It really sounds more like they are in agreement. If I read what DSC posted after his press conference correctly, the FIA GT1 would be just bigger/more powerful engines of the same car. Ex. Corvette cannot race the 7L engine in GT2 so they would make a 6.2L for GT2 and a 7L for GT1; same car and choice of engine depending upon where the team chooses to run the car. It wouldn't make the cost of the car significantly more.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by JAG

Reading the Bears blog, could we see GT2 manufactuers split from the FIA?

Right now it's the Manufacturs/ACO/LMS/ALMS favouring GT2 vs Ratel/FIA GT and wholesale changes.

Makes me glad that the ACO is independent from the FIA. Makes you wonder why people even consider what Ratel has to say given that he has no authority on the matter.

[JAG]

http://www.sportscarpros.com/cottonb...ed/default.htm

Intersting article.

I'm still unconvinced anyone but the proposed FIA GT World Championship needs anymore than GT2.

Believe me or not, I'm more excited by the BMW M3 GTR vs 911 vs 430 battle than the talk of Koniggseggs and Zondas.

I'd love to see GT2 evolve, while keeping a lid on costs.