Saturday sprint races - Page 6

**Adam43** · 12 Sep 2021, 12:13 (Ref:4073238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...oying/6665424/

More rule stupidity.
When you are a winner but you're not a winner....
Bottas gets fastest lap in Q3. Pole for the sprint race.
Wins the sprint race.
Loses pole for the 'Grand Prix' because he had an engine change before qualifying Friday evening.
So the winner of the qualifying sprint race gets three points. Bottas gets three.
So the winner of the qualifying sprint race gets a medal. Bottas gets a medal 1st.
So the winner of the qualifying sprint race is recognized as the winner of the pole.
Verstappen.
Why? Because the person who gets pole is the winner of the sprint race....

But hold on. He is reported to have got the three points? He got the medal? He finished first? Yes.
Ok so he got sent to the back of the grid not because he was cheating but because
of the regulatory fourth engine change. But he still won the race, got the points, and the medal.
But he's not regarded as the winner of the pole when he obviously was the winner of the pole.
Even if a technical rule relegated him to start from the back in the 'Grand Prix'.
WTF is wrong with this 'sport'.
Is it so woke in its denial of reality that it still tries to sell itself as the ultimate in motor sporting prowess yet is completely out of touch with its own reality?
Why don't they just recognize the winner of the qualifying race as the pole winner EVEN if he has to start at the back of the grid.
This is a complete joke and its why the qualifying 'race' isn't a qualifying race....

It’s a technicality. Who won the competitive element designed to set the grid (Bottas), who will start on pole (Verstappen). So it is perfectly true to say Verstappen has pole.

I’m not struggling with this as some great logical impasse!

I think the record should reflect who was quickest in qualifying and there should be another new list of who won these sprint races, which I wouldn’t have if I could chose.

Not overly worked up about this though.

Quote:

Is F1 'Grand Prix' motor racing?
Or is it motorsport governed by Grand Pricks....

Let’s make sure we give context a little. The what they call pole is not really an issue. They could call it a badger if the sport was good.

Quote:

Perez says its boring.....
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/p...thing/6665367/

This link you posted is more what the issue is.

As well as if it is what Grand Prix is about.

S griffin · 12 Sep 2021, 14:59 (Ref:4073351)

The sprint race is a curse! At both GPs we’ve used them Max and Lewis end up coming together in the main race!

dsg · 13 Sep 2021, 03:56 (Ref:4073531)

I like the sprints and if the predictions of the 2022 cars being able to follow closer come true I think they will be even better at putting the racers closer to the front.

Skam85 · 13 Sep 2021, 04:48 (Ref:4073536)

I liked Alonso's idea of bringing back one shot qualy

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2021, 14:45 (Ref:4073649)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

I liked Alonso's idea of bringing back one shot qualy

indeed. its an interesting idea and one i enjoyed when they tried it before. it was a way to fill the entire hour with on track action.

i think Monza highlighted an issue with Q1 and too many cars on track at the same time...so why not have different formats for different venues as need dictate? rather why cant the quali session be tailored to the limitations or opportunities of the track?

personally i liked the sprint race. if this was a traditionally quail event, Max and Lewis would have both opted for the same tire strategy, started on the same tire, and the race would have been more straight forward.

not that this is a bad thing of course but the different tire strategies (including everyone getting a free choice of tire to start with) led to a very interesting first stint imo.

would things have gotten more exciting had the accident not happened? hard to say but all signs were pointing toward the answer being yes.

anyways, i have seen enough to say that i think there is potential with the idea and would like to see it tried out again. at the least would like to see it next year at Silverstone (and Monza if its back again) as a way to better compare it to this years attempts.

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2021, 14:46 (Ref:4073650)

also would have liked to see a poll option for 'need to see more before deciding'.

no need for everything to be so binary.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 Sep 2021, 14:52 (Ref:4073652)

I think the current qualifying format is good as it. There's been many a qualifying session I've watched on a Saturday afternoon that's been far more entertaining than the actual race on Sunday.

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2021, 15:00 (Ref:4073658)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think the current qualifying format is good as it. There's been many a qualifying session I've watched on a Saturday afternoon that's been far more entertaining than the actual race on Sunday.

sure and there have been plenty that were less entertaining.

anyways, we saw what the current quali format at Monza would look like on friday...its was a mess!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 Sep 2021, 15:26 (Ref:4073665)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

sure and there have been plenty that were less entertaining.

anyways, we saw what the current quali format at Monza would look like on friday...its was a mess!

Indeed there have but I would prefer that to what transpired this weekend.

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2021, 18:06 (Ref:4073695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Indeed there have but I would prefer that to what transpired this weekend.

im a bit afraid to ask for fear of derailing this thread but what transpired this weekend...other then the accident and/or Mclaren winning?

i suspect we are all very happy about Mclaren winning so are you suggesting the sprint race led to the accident?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 Sep 2021, 18:25 (Ref:4073700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im a bit afraid to ask for fear of derailing this thread but what transpired this weekend...other then the accident and/or Mclaren winning?

i suspect we are all very happy about Mclaren winning so are you suggesting the sprint race led to the accident?

I used transpired in the context of qualifying regarding the sprint race, as opposed to the normal qualifying format.

Of course the sprint race didn't lead to the accident. That's a strange thing to come up with.

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2021, 18:36 (Ref:4073703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I used transpired in the context of qualifying regarding the sprint race, as opposed to the normal qualifying format.

Of course the sprint race didn't lead to the accident. That's a strange thing to come up with.

indeed a very strange thing to suggest but it was mentioned earlier in this thread and wasnt sure if you were making a similar point.

apologies.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 Sep 2021, 18:40 (Ref:4073704)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

indeed a very strange thing to suggest but it was mentioned earlier in this thread and wasnt sure if you were making a similar point.

apologies.

That's ok, no need for apologies.

Alan52 · 13 Sep 2021, 21:33 (Ref:4073720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

I liked Alonso's idea of bringing back one shot qualy

I’m the opposite.The 1 car on the track at a time is pretty boring and was tried with different variations in 2003 to 2005 and didn’t work.
As you know here in Australia it is a regular Supercar thing and except for Bathurst where the tradition factor and the stand alone prestige of pole make it a big deal it’s only purpose seems to be to fill tv time.Very flat if you’re at the circuit.
The current F1 system is the best and most exciting qualifying system I have seen.Nothing is perfect.

bathurst77 · 13 Sep 2021, 22:44 (Ref:4073725)

maybe vb should have served his engine penalty on the sprint

Teretonga · 13 Sep 2021, 23:11 (Ref:4073727)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

maybe vb should have served his engine penalty on the sprint

I don't think you can, but that was a part of my post on the subject. If they are going to be a regular thing with points awarded, then you should be able to.

Tourer · 13 Sep 2021, 23:24 (Ref:4073729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I don't think you can, but that was a part of my post on the subject. If they are going to be a regular thing with points awarded, then you should be able to.

Good point. If VB had started from the rear of the Sprint, he could have gone hard, ripped up a set of tyres and in that number of laps, most likely got himself up somewhere in the range of P8-P12 - which would have given him (and us) the opportunity for him to be a genuine contender for more of the Grand Prix on Sunday.

We may get more anomalies such as this one through the course of trialling Sprints this year - if Sprints are going to stay, the anomalies can be dealt with in the rules from 2022 onwards.

**Adam43** · 14 Sep 2021, 01:12 (Ref:4073742)

If you can take it on a sprint weekend for the sprint it is arguably less of a penalty.

Teretonga · 14 Sep 2021, 02:01 (Ref:4073752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

If you can take it on a sprint weekend for the sprint it is arguably less of a penalty.

Is that a bad thing?
What is the point of engine penalties?
Only to discourage people from having to spend 20 billion on having a hundred engines a year on the line.....?
Because you have limit on it do you have to penalize people who break the rule.

Never did that when we had 1.5 turbo's or DFV's or Coventry Climax V8's.

And if we look at it as effectively being a 400km race in two parts with the sprint result dictating the grid for the final part its all a part of the main event.

S griffin · 14 Sep 2021, 15:12 (Ref:4073862)

The thing is the teams will always have plenty of backups just in case, so does it really save money? Maybe the lesser teams save a bit of money by not having infinite amounts of money, but that’s about it. Teams will spend money in other areas. And arguably having a limit on engine costs more, as you have to spend a lot to make sure reliability is bulletproof

**Born Racer** · 15 Sep 2021, 04:09 (Ref:4073992)

I have to say, I really like the sprint race. I love qually too, but I find more racing to watch is a good thing. F1 Sprint reminds me of heats in karting which lead to the final.

So I've finally voted 'yes'.

BTCC frog · 31 Oct 2021, 16:06 (Ref:4080822)

I've seen a suggestion for the sprint races which is the first thing that I have been in favour of related to them:
Friday qualifying, sets grid for Saturday sprint and Sunday Grand Prix. Saturday sprint has it's own points system and is completely separate to the main championship. At the end of the year, the main champion is crowned, and there is also a sprint champion. This way, those who don't like the sprints are happy because they can totally ignore them if they like as they affect the actual championship in no way, and those who do like the sprints are happy because the sprint race is still there, but is part of its own championship. In fact, if this was introduced, I wouldn't even be opposed to the sprints being reversed grids, because the main championship would still be the pure, pinnacle of motorsport Formula 1, and the sprint championship would be like a totally different series which can be as gimmicky as it likes if it is not affecting the main championship.
Domenicali, make it happen!

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 31 Oct 2021, 17:24 (Ref:4080827)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I've seen a suggestion for the sprint races which is the first thing that I have been in favour of related to them:
Friday qualifying, sets grid for Saturday sprint and Sunday Grand Prix. Saturday sprint has it's own points system and is completely separate to the main championship. At the end of the year, the main champion is crowned, and there is also a sprint champion. This way, those who don't like the sprints are happy because they can totally ignore them if they like as they affect the actual championship in no way, and those who do like the sprints are happy because the sprint race is still there, but is part of its own championship. In fact, if this was introduced, I wouldn't even be opposed to the sprints being reversed grids, because the main championship would still be the pure, pinnacle of motorsport Formula 1, and the sprint championship would be like a totally different series which can be as gimmicky as it likes if it is not affecting the main championship.
Domenicali, make it happen!

Not sure how that would work, unless there is an obligation to compete in the sprint championship. What would stop a team taking the grid for a sprint and then immediately parking the car at the end of lap one to preserve power unit, gearbox mileage, possibly tyre allocation etc.

There has to be something in the sprint that carries forward into the main race to prevent this.

BTCC frog · 31 Oct 2021, 18:12 (Ref:4080833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Not sure how that would work, unless there is an obligation to compete in the sprint championship. What would stop a team taking the grid for a sprint and then immediately parking the car at the end of lap one to preserve power unit, gearbox mileage, possibly tyre allocation etc.

There has to be something in the sprint that carries forward into the main race to prevent this.

Extra prize money for the sprint championship?

steve_r · 31 Oct 2021, 19:27 (Ref:4080839)

An F1 race needs to be longer to work, due to the difficulty in overtaking in many tracks. I think sprint races will not work most of the time.

My idea - Stick some young up and coming drivers into the cars and let them run in a few sprint races. Give the teams specific engines or similiar so that it does not affect the main drivers championship. Treat it as a way of teams testing young drivers or something, a "B" league if you like.

That solves the lack of testing oppertunities for younger drivers and gives more of them an oppertunity to make a name for themselves.

View Poll Results: Do you want Saturday Sprint Races?
Yes, I want Saturday Sprint Races	23	36.51%
No, I don't want Saturday Sprint Races	40	63.49%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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