Unfulfilled talents - those who never achieved potential? - Page 16

**chunterer** · 24 Sep 2021, 10:15 (Ref:4075251)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Davide Valsecchi and Fabio Leimer.

Hmm, think they got as far as their abilities deserved!

Nononsensecapeesh · 24 Sep 2021, 10:24 (Ref:4075254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hmm, think they got as far as their abilities deserved!

Well Leimer maybe but Valsecchi?

**chunterer** · 24 Sep 2021, 11:32 (Ref:4075266)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Well Leimer maybe but Valsecchi?

A top bloke but he was never an ace in waiting. Probably Palmer, Chilton, Gugelmin, Bartels sort of level. Could put in one stellar drive in 10, that sort of thing.

Nononsensecapeesh · 24 Sep 2021, 11:41 (Ref:4075268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

A top bloke but he was never an ace in waiting. Probably Palmer, Chilton, Gugelmin, Bartels sort of level. Could put in one stellar drive in 10, that sort of thing.

Well, maybe you're right, I can understand Lotus had their reasons but I was rather disappointed they didn't promote him to a race seat for the last two rounds of 2013.

In more recent times, Robin Frijns definitely and if the current state of affairs doesn't change any time in the next year or so, Oscar Piastri could be in danger of ending up on this thread.

coppice · 2 Oct 2021, 07:15 (Ref:4076633)

By far the most naturally talented driver I've seen in relatively recent years was rally cross star Daniel Rooke. I remember watching him in a Citroen AX humiliating sundry supercar drivers and his smoothness (especially under braking ) and sublime car control were a joy to see. I was with a bunch of sundry enthusiasts , including several former racing drivers and we prayed he'd make the transition to tarmac - if the lottery had been kind I'd have paid for a single seater season myself !

Another sublimely talented driver is Jon Milocevic . Now in historics , but I wonder how far he'd have gone if he'd stuck it out in FF1600 ? I have watched racing at Cadwell for nearly 50 years and I've never seen anybody tackle Hall Bends like JM did in his Cooper FJ

Nononsensecapeesh · 6 Oct 2021, 11:57 (Ref:4077176)

The Sperafico quartet (Ricardo, Rodrigo, Alex and the late Rafael) and any other Brazilian (and Argentinian) who ended up in Brazilian stock car racing.

**chunterer** · 7 Oct 2021, 05:04 (Ref:4077275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

The Sperafico quartet (Ricardo, Rodrigo, Alex and the late Rafael) and any other Brazilian (and Argentinian) who ended up in Brazilian stock car racing.

Quite a gerneralisation there.

Would you be able to suggest a couple more specific examples?

Nononsensecapeesh · 7 Oct 2021, 13:00 (Ref:4077335)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Quite a gerneralisation there.

Would you be able to suggest a couple more specific examples?

Well certainly Ricardo at least.

**chunterer** · 8 Oct 2021, 06:49 (Ref:4077429)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Well certainly Ricardo at least.

Rosset?

Nononsensecapeesh · 9 Oct 2021, 16:53 (Ref:4077628)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Rosset?

I meant Sperafico.

TuteZaek · 18 Oct 2021, 00:55 (Ref:4078912)

The thing is, winning almost everything a pilot raced ando never reaching F1 counts as "unfullfiled"?
If that, Pechito López, after being test driver at Renault, and the USF1 debacle that closed the F1 doors for him, won everything in Argentina (Not the TC, tho, lost the championship to a spin in the last lap caused by an oil spill left by his teammate broken engine)
Then killed the WTCC together with Citroen, where went as a 3rd driver, behind the two french stars in the french team.
In touring cars he Is a monster, one of the best ever.

Now he won at Lemans this year (in a Toyota, but still) and already has the WEC title since last year.

In the negatives, his fórmula e career was a struggle.

That said, as someone said some posts ago, there are in both Argentina and Brazil (At least pilots from there jump across the pond to the "civilized"* world More frequently) a lot of "largelly unknown drivers" for the eurocentric F1 and feeders that are really on an amazing level, but since we are far, don't have a lot of money, and also really big and prosper national racing ecosystems most of them are not heard of internationally.

Also, at least in Argentina, were i'm from, the focus of the driver career development doesn't focus on reaching Fórmula 1, the pilots who want that and have the money or contacts, fly to europe early in their careers.

Instead we're like touring car heaven, we have 4 national level touring championships, with fields going from 16/20 to more than 40 per race, with manofacturers support and teams on all of them, each with their own feeder series, with good media coverage on national tv.

By comparision, the most powefull fórmula series it's the Fórmula Renault 2.0, itself presented as the first step on the Super TC2000 ladder.

As of the level of the drivers, a monster like López, while succesfull, had to fight a lot with drivers wich were/are almost on par with him like Rossi, Canapino, Girolami, Guerrieri (even if career in Argentina sucked) and Werner, and some old schoolers like Silva, Ortelli, "El guri" Mart?*nez to name a few.

Now, talkin' about tin tops, an argentine driver that could had a better career, at least in the country, was Mauro Giallombardo, 2008 TC Mouras champion (third level of the TC ladder) 2010 TC Pista champion (Main TC feeder) and 2012 TC champion, in 2017 suffered a traffic accident that left heavy sequels and forced him to retire as a driver, now has his own single car team in the TC championship.

* In jest, but sometimes looks like everyone here ok the country wants to be european.

**chunterer** · 19 Oct 2021, 21:33 (Ref:4079170)

Well I can easily point to a few Argentine drivers who fit this thread. In fact a few already festured but if I may list them for discussion.

Quique Mansilla
Victor Rosso
Norberto Fonta
Juan Manual Silva
Guerrieri, definitely. Hugely underrated talent.
I reckon he is better than Pechito and I thought Pechito was going to make the breakthrough but he 'choked' in GP2. After a strong debut season with Dams, he blew it in 06 with Supernova at Hockenheim having dominated the race he gave it away on the last lap. Unbelievable.

TuteZaek · 19 Oct 2021, 21:54 (Ref:4079174)

Quique Mansilla life after retirement was wild!

Nononsensecapeesh · 19 Oct 2021, 22:52 (Ref:4079183)

Nicolas Minassian, in single seaters at least, tested the stillborn Dallara-Honda prototype in 1999 then overlooked for a BAR testing role for 2000 in favour of Darren Manning.

Manning could easily qualify as well and Memo Gidley who replaced Minassian in CART.

**chunterer** · 20 Oct 2021, 20:52 (Ref:4079281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Nicolas Minassian, in single seaters at least, tested the stillborn Dallara-Honda prototype in 1999 then overlooked for a BAR testing role for 2000 in favour of Darren Manning.

Manning could easily qualify as well and Memo Gidley who replaced Minassian in CART.

i reckon RH-R is/was better then Memo.

Alex Barron is same level as Gidley imo.

S griffin · 21 Oct 2021, 10:36 (Ref:4079330)

I know RHR was always hoping to get to F1. Just seemed no one was interested in him over here

Nononsensecapeesh · 21 Oct 2021, 11:33 (Ref:4079340)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

I know RHR was always hoping to get to F1. Just seemed no one was interested in him over here

It's funny Colton Herta is linked to Alfa/Sauber, depending on whether Michael Andretti buys a stake in the team, his father Bryan was linked to Minardi for 2003.

This kind of reminds me of the article on Michael Andretti's F1 stint on the old F1 Rejects site. Al Under Jr., Paul Tracy and Robby Gordon all drew interest from F1 teams in the 1990s.

S griffin · 21 Oct 2021, 12:29 (Ref:4079343)

Al Unser Jr and Paul Tracy both had tests with Williams and Benetton respectively, but I didn’t know Robbie Gordon was linked with any F1 team. I know Jeff Gordon had been linked to a few F1 teams during his time

Nononsensecapeesh · 21 Oct 2021, 12:58 (Ref:4079345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Al Unser Jr and Paul Tracy both had tests with Williams and Benetton respectively, but I didn’t know Robbie Gordon was linked with any F1 team. I know Jeff Gordon had been linked to a few F1 teams during his time

Ligier did try to hire Robby Gordon for 1996 but he decided to stay in CART. It says so in the article about Pedro Diniz on GP Rejects.

https://gprejects.com/centrale/features/pedro-diniz-formula-ones-best-pay-driver

**chunterer** · 22 Oct 2021, 22:14 (Ref:4079499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Ligier did try to hire Robby Gordon for 1996 but he decided to stay in CART. It says so in the article about Pedro Diniz on GP Rejects.

https://gprejects.com/centrale/features/pedro-diniz-formula-ones-best-pay-driver

I'm not sure about that!
Robby Gordon was mentioned before then in conjunction with a possible Stewart F3000 drive. He might even have tested.

S griffin · 23 Oct 2021, 12:48 (Ref:4079556)

Certainly Robby would have had the talent for F1, but maybe not the temperament. Although he certainly would livened things up at times

Nononsensecapeesh · 23 Oct 2021, 14:49 (Ref:4079566)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'm not sure about that!
Robby Gordon was mentioned before then in conjunction with a possible Stewart F3000 drive. He might even have tested.

You think GP Rejects is lying?

Need further proof?

https://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns00367.html

**chunterer** · 24 Oct 2021, 21:35 (Ref:4079823)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

You think GP Rejects is lying?

Need further proof?

https://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns00367.html

It doesn't matter what you're quoting. Lots of things get reported and written doesn't mean they are going to lead anywhere.

Gordon was never a serious contender for an F1 drive. If had tested a car fair enough. But he didn't.

I doubt he is suitable for inclusion in this thread to be fair.

Nononsensecapeesh · 24 Oct 2021, 21:47 (Ref:4079827)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It doesn't matter what you're quoting. Lots of things get reported and written doesn't mean they are going to lead anywhere.

Gordon was never a serious contender for an F1 drive. If had tested a car fair enough. But he didn't.

I doubt he is suitable for inclusion in this thread to be fair.

I never said he was or wasn't.

I merely said he was at one point linked to an F1 drive whether it was likely or not.

Anyone who got profiled on F1/GP Rejects could qualify.

**chunterer** · 25 Oct 2021, 22:36 (Ref:4080027)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

I never said he was or wasn't.

I merely said he was at one point linked to an F1 drive whether it was likely or not.

Anyone who got profiled on F1/GP Rejects could qualify.

Sorry if i'm being thick here. Are you sayimg anyone on a that webpage could qualify as an unfulfilled talent-the purpose of this thread?

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