Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22 May 2019, 06:13 (Ref:3905179)   #201
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,376
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Equal stints to Toyota (potentially) is a big deal. The lap longer because of the hybrid may be gone. If that's the case then it's the right thing to do.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 13:24 (Ref:3905222)   #202
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
BMW kills off the WEC program with the M8, though the IMSA program is set to continue. Also, former Peugeot LMP1 technical boss Bruno Famin joins the FIA in a newly created operational role.
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 13:53 (Ref:3905225)   #203
ApexTurtle
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
United States
Posts: 299
ApexTurtle is a back marker
Excellent, let's hope the decline of GTE continues.
ApexTurtle is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 14:20 (Ref:3905229)   #204
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
TF Sport confirms GTE Am program with a new Aston.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...programme.html
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 14:22 (Ref:3905230)   #205
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I guess BMW didn’t like the way the series is going. I think staying in IMSA suits them
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 14:23 (Ref:3905231)   #206
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
not a surprise actually...

basically the same 2010-2011 M3 GT2 schnitzer specs script repeats...


bmw tries to force ACO to accept a not regular car in its concept...
ACO doesn't accept
bmw is forced to redesign the car under homologable specs
car performances are disappointing

bmw withdraws...
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 14:56 (Ref:3905235)   #207
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
To be fair, and I've seen the BMW M8 memes everywhere, the M8 in GTE/GTLM guise not really any wider than the GTE/GTLM spec Ferrari 488 or Porsche 911 GT3 RSR. The racing M8 is only like 5-6mm wider than the Ferrari. The Ferrari is 2040mm wide, the M8 about 2046mm, GTE/GTLM max width under the current tech regs is 2050mm.

Basically, the M8 is about the diameter of a 5.56mm NATO/.223 Remington rifle bullet's worth of width wider than a GTE 488.

The failings of the M8 is that it's a big GT car as far as the road car goes, not a sports car like the Ferrari 488, Porsche 911, the Aston Martin Vantage or the Corvette Z06. Let alone the Ford GT, which can be seen variously as a modern execution of the McLaren F1, a prototype with a road car body, a DTM or Super GT/JGTC GT500 car with a road car body, or a modern Daytona Prototype with a carbon tub.

Don't get me wrong, I like the new BMW 8 series and I think that it's a great road car for what it is, a big GT car like the Aston Martin DB11, or the Lexus LC. But as a GT racing car in a class dominated by sports cars or sporting GTs? Not really.

Granted, the M8 and BMW Motorsport have had an easier time getting performance balancing help from IMSA with the M8 in the WeatherTech Series vs getting help from the ACO in the WEC. Though also to be fair, AMR were similarly no where in the WEC with the new Vantage at first, especially Spa and LM last year, but since Silverstone '18 they've made steady and significant improvements in performance and have gotten a few podiums and even have a race win at Spa on merit. BMW and MTEK just haven't been able to make the same improvements on the WEC side of things.
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 15:21 (Ref:3905236)   #208
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hope to recall correctly but M8 issues are not about width but lenght and height.
In 2017 BMW was going to design the ultimate wingcar gte, having M8 to be in their initial plans, longer than any ohter gte and considerably lower than the street model. ACO denied any waiver, so bmw had to redesign the M8 according to homologable sizes.
They had to destroke the engine to 4L as well, even if it remains the most brutal engine among gte, with drivers using to upshift below 5500rpm...

considering that 500hp @ 5000rpm = 712Nm... just wonder the insane torque release.... M8 gte is basically nowadays c6r gt1
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 15:40 (Ref:3905237)   #209
Damian Baldi
Veteran
 
Damian Baldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,179
Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post

considering that 500hp @ 5000rpm = 712Nm... just wonder the insane torque release.... M8 gte is basically nowadays c6r gt1
That engine could be a good DPi competitor for the Cadillac.
Damian Baldi is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 16:04 (Ref:3905240)   #210
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Baldi View Post
That engine could be a good DPi competitor for the Cadillac.

is just impossible that a so large turbo V8 would ever be elegible for dpi unfortunately
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 16:06 (Ref:3905241)   #211
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
IMSA with DPI do seem to favor GTE/GT3 engine sizes with adjustments to get them up to 600 or so bhp. Granted, the original Caddy LT4 was 6.2 liters, and just used the basic block and heads from the stock LT4. Then to make BOP easier, RCR/GM destroked the engine from 6.2 to 5.5 liters.
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 16:17 (Ref:3905243)   #212
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
actually isn't about IMSA gt3 engines favoritism; it's about that for a manufacturer is much easier and cheaper to bring a street/gt3 engine and tune it up to 600hp than design a bespoke engine.

The M8 beast motor is just OP! nothing else could match that torque release.
Aside that, guess it would be required a lot of work on any chassis to fit it.

If ever BMW would greenlight a dpi program, guess that the new dtm 2L turbo would be the best choice.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 16:54 (Ref:3905247)   #213
MaskedRacer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,955
MaskedRacer User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
WEC GTE Pro has been awesome this super season and it really has been the GT racing at its finest. The summit of that category has been reached it appears now. Downhill from here.

I imagine Ford will say good bye after Le Mans too. And that GTE will have just 3 manufacturers full time across the pro and am landscape. That will kill interest. I think GT racing future is going to be fuzzy until the prototype situation is worked out. At least on the WEC side.
MaskedRacer is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 19:38 (Ref:3905265)   #214
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
I sort of brought this up in the IMSA thread, but I'd like to expand upon it here. Is there much of a performance gap between GT3 and GTE/GTLM cars now? A lot of them seem to have similar aero, similar power plants and power ratings, similar base minimum weight, and so on.

Could GT3 maybe be a reasonable replacement or supplement to GTE/GTLM? We already know that the Ferrari 488 and probably the Aston Martin Vantage GT3 and GTE cars are or at least seem very similar. Also, GT3 seems to be more privateer friendly and in addition to Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari and (possibly) Ford, you have Audi, Lamborghini, Honda/Acura, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, McLaren and probably 1 or 2 that I'm neglecting to name.

So should the ACO maybe down the road look at GT3 to replace the current GTE regs, since the cars have been moving in a similar direction with regards to rules and that GT3 does seem to be more privateer friendly and has more variety than present day GTE?
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 20:01 (Ref:3905269)   #215
gert
Veteran
 
gert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 6,137
gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I sort of brought this up in the IMSA thread, but I'd like to expand upon it here. Is there much of a performance gap between GT3 and GTE/GTLM cars now? A lot of them seem to have similar aero, similar power plants and power ratings, similar base minimum weight, and so on.
Isn't GTD (IMSA) GT3 spec? If so, there was a 4 second gap between the slowest GTLM and the fastest GTD at Mid Ohio during qualifying (3 at Sebring, 2 at Daytona)

I have no idea if that is the real performance gap, or if it is due to the GTD cars being pegged down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Also, GT3 seems to be more privateer friendly
Is that not partially because they have some tech that the GTLM cars don't have? Pwer stering or ABS or traction control, or something like that?
Something that makes live easier for a non-Pro driver, at least IIRC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
and in addition to Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari and (possibly) Ford, you have Audi, Lamborghini, Honda/Acura, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, McLaren and probably 1 or 2 that I'm neglecting to name.
Bentley and Lexus.
gert is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 20:42 (Ref:3905275)   #216
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
In IMSA, the GT3 cars are restricted to create separation between GTLM and GTD. At Fuji, a GT3 spec Super GT GT300 BMW M6 ran a faster lap than a GTE spec Ford GT.
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 20:47 (Ref:3905276)   #217
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I may not remember correctly, but I think a lot of the GTLM-GTE-Pro advantage is aero. The GT3s are almost as quick on a long enough straight (which makes Daytona so much fun for GT drivers) but the GTE/GTLM cars have a lot more aero for braking and cornering.

Not sure the manufacturers dropping big bucks in GTE/GTLM would take kindly to a lot of privateers trying to build their own---not sure the GT3 manufacturers would want their names on home-made GTE specials ... and as I recall, some manufacturers have simply ruled out the expense of GTE/GTLM (Audi, McLaren as I recall.)
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 20:49 (Ref:3905277)   #218
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,212
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
In IMSA, the GT3 cars are restricted to create separation between GTLM and GTD. At Fuji, a GT3 spec Super GT GT300 BMW M6 ran a faster lap than a GTE spec Ford GT.
A GT3 car ran in SuperGT spec, not exactly the same as a GT3 car running that lap time. And what were the conditions of each run? It doesn't seem like most tracks were GT3 and GTE/LM run they really are a toss up for who's faster. And stuff like ABS needs to be removed if you want it to be a true Pro class
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 21:12 (Ref:3905280)   #219
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
gte/gt3 convergence failed due different manufacturers targets and interests



it's quite complicated to explain, I'll give a quick try:



AERO

about aero, maybe gt3 cars generate more downforce than gte from wing and bodywork but for sure gte have better undercar aero and diffusers that make gte much better aero efficient; or to better say: generating less drag, at same value of downforce N (or kgf) generated, gte reach higher top speeds and consume a bit less.



TIRES

IMSA gte and WEC gt-pro can use confidential tires without any development limit.
Each gt3 has an homologated tires size set and usually compete in series with a single tires supplier. Due customers oriented nature, is useless to say that gt3 teams and manufacturers can't develope and use confidential tires.
Of course gtopen and IMSA gt3's using michelin are more competitive than BES gt3's that use rubbish pirelli.


WEIGHT
gt3 is a bop bound class and because of extensive use of bop ballast, gt3's use to have a min. weight from about 1280kg to >1350kg. Gte are a bit lighter with a min. weight range from 1240 to 1280kg.

Need to say that gte are produced with more advanced carbon panels and parts and without ballast are even lighter than 1100kg, while gt3 unlikely are below 1200kg stock out of factory.


ENGINE

for most of gt3's, engine is basically the road motor, just made more robust to last about 10000km and managed by the manufacturer's ECU working with an homologated firmware and setting. Teams are not allowed to alter factory ECU settings.... sometimes even manufacturer isn't (ask spa 2016 AMG teams...).

Gte engines share the block of the road motor but are produced with much more bespoke racing parts. Because of these updated parts, gte engines use to reach the target power (about 520hp for both gte and gt3) at lower rpm than gt3.

Example, both 458 gte and 488 gt3 had a 4.5L NA V8.

458 gte drivers used ot upshift at about 7000rpm, 488 gt3 drivers had to push up to 9000rpm to get the same power.
Because of that gte have a slightly better fuel miliage.
Gte need to burn 90-95L for about 65 minutes stint lenght, some gt3 model need to burn even 110L for an usual about 70 minutes BES sting lenght.



GEARBOX
gt3's have homologated and mandatory gear ratios and can't be changed; gte's gear ratios are free and teams can change them according to the track
(example short ratios for laguna seca, long ratios for le mans)


ECU
gt3 cars have an homologated ECU with homologated firmware and settings. Teams can't touch that.
To help silver and bronze am drivers, gte have TCS, ABS and some other electronics assistance devices for sure. Gte teams can use custom ECU setting, even if only work and semi-backed teams have the know how to work on it. Private gt-am teams are usually assisted by manufacturers engineers.
ABS is not allowed in gte, while TCS it is.


Let's say that with michelin confidential tires, a lower min. weight and a better developed undercar aero, gt3 would be in the same league with gte.

Side effect of that is that gt3 will become as expensive as gte and most of hundreds of private teams will drop for something cheaper.

Last edited by canaglia; 22 May 2019 at 21:19.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 21:15 (Ref:3905281)   #220
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
A GT3 car ran in SuperGT spec, not exactly the same as a GT3 car running that lap time. And what were the conditions of each run? It doesn't seem like most tracks were GT3 and GTE/LM run they really are a toss up for who's faster. And stuff like ABS needs to be removed if you want it to be a true Pro class

that happened about 7 years ago when gt3 had some waiver to compete against gt300 prototypes; from 2013 (or 2012) most of gt300 entry list is made by gt3 and are full gt3 spec since SRO bop is used
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 21:34 (Ref:3905282)   #221
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Both the LMGTE and Super GT/JGTC GT300 lap records were set a few months apart in 2016:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_Speedway#Records
chernaudi is online now  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 21:46 (Ref:3905285)   #222
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Canaglia's post #221 says it well with the correct summation---if GT3 could run at GTE levels, it would cost GTE money and most fo the teams would go to GT4 or whatever was a step down where they could afford to be competitive.
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 21:56 (Ref:3905287)   #223
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,212
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Both the LMGTE and Super GT/JGTC GT300 lap records were set a few months apart in 2016:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_Speedway#Records
I'm going to guess conditions were not the same given the 6 second difference at Spa this year.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 22:00 (Ref:3905289)   #224
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
I'm going to guess conditions were not the same given the 6 second difference at Spa this year.

actually gt3 of gt300 have always been a bit faster than WEC gte during the years.... my bet is that japanese teams know better the track and know how to set-up better their cars.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2019, 22:09 (Ref:3905291)   #225
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,212
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
But that much faster given the same cars?? That seems like a bit less setup than something else on the car. It's not like there are slow Am drivers in the GTE cars.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[LM24 Race] 2019 24 Hours of Le Mans: ACO/FIA WEC '18/'19 Season Finale chernaudi 24 Heures du Mans 1994 13 Mar 2020 14:28
[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season hondafan37 ACO Regulated Series 2143 11 Jun 2019 19:03
[Official] 2019 Season Launch/ Pre-Season Testing Thread ScotsBrutesFan Formula One 248 16 Mar 2019 11:11
Sebring 12H + WEC 2019 Coach Ep Marshals Forum 10 7 Nov 2018 15:37
WEC round 8: Six Hours of Bahrain---WEC season finale. chernaudi ACO Regulated Series 212 23 Nov 2015 22:17


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.