Winter Projects

[zefarelly]

Never had any interest in Escorts. and Servo's are horrible things.

find a real one and recondition it yourself, its safety critical so don't trust anyone you don't know well with it!

[delta]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Never had any interest in Escorts. and Servo's are horrible things.

find a real one and recondition it yourself, its safety critical so don't trust anyone you don't know well with it!

Just wondered if Cortina Master cylinder would do the job,???.

[zefarelly]

Cortina is a normal Girling job like this

I'm guessing the Escort has P16 callipers on the front and 9" drums at the back, therefore braided hoses and 0.75 master cylinder will be spot on.

[delta]

Thanks Jo,
I just had an idea. Bet Mike wont like it.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

Thanks Jo,
I just had an idea. Bet Mike wont like it.

Just leave me out of it! i don't know your intentions for the car, whether you expect to get an HTP, so am not going to comment.....

Joe, RS2000 Mk1 had 8" rear drums instead of the Mexico, RS16 and TC 9". Don't ask me why- could be due to the massive extra weight up front changing balance requirements or because development was done in Germany and they didn't have any 9"! Mk2 went onto the larger ones, and if you want to be sneaky the wider Capri version will fit if you swap backplates as well.

[morninggents]

From a safety aspect I would always run a twin master cylinder system. If you don't like the modern use of a bias bar it can always be immobilised.

Joe, I think Mk 1 Escorts had moved to the M16 caliper and 9 inch drum rears.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by morninggents

From a safety aspect I would always run a twin master cylinder system. If you don't like the modern use of a bias bar it can always be immobilised.

Joe, I think Mk 1 Escorts had moved to the M16 caliper and 9 inch drum rears.

Peter, Mk1 RS models left factory on P16, but most will be on M16 by now!

[morninggents]

I stand corrected. Sorry.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by morninggents

From a safety aspect I would always run a twin master cylinder system. If you don't like the modern use of a bias bar it can always be immobilised.

.

Do you mean two MCs and a balance bar? If you do then you are no better off than with a single cylinder because if one side goes down you still don't have any brakes.

[morninggents]

Not sure what you mean, Tim. With the twin cylinder set up I've used if fluid is lost from one MC then the other will still work. Surely? No?

[Neil Duke]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Do you mean two MCs and a balance bar? If you do then you are no better off than with a single cylinder because if one side goes down you still don't have any brakes.

One m/c for fronts,one for rears,balance bar is for front/rear bias,how will this run out of brakes?

[Tim Falce]

Try having a rear wheel cylinder go approaching Redgate at full chat and you'll find out. The bais bar will take the path of least resistance and bottom out on the cylinder with no pressure. The other cylinder still has pressure but you can't apply it with the pedal.

[zefarelly]

one goes, the balance bar pivots and the other is borderline useless . . I remember this from bleeding brakes on a Cortina I built and the owner insisted on a bias pedal box.

[GORDON STREETER]

Ok Tim is right in what he says as I had a union snap off of a front caliper and had no brakes at all with a tandem bias bar system but luckily the corner had a load of run off onto grass !!! I think a lot of people are fooled into thinking that if one system fails then you still have the other one, it's not like a dual master cylinder on a road car and the best way to make a fail safe system is a dual master cylinder and an adjustable line lock on the rear IMHO
Yes they look the dogs ******** but don't work when you hit trouble !

[morninggents]

Attach both M/Cs directly to the pedal.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Attach both M/Cs directly to the pedal.

Yes that would work but not adjustable on the move, you can have an adjustable valve in the rear line (if allowed) but you might as well just use a single dual system master cylinder.
I had a scan round the net last night and found others on forums that had complete brake failure with adjustable bias bar type systems with comments that "it can't happen" however until it happens you will find it does.
The main problem looks like having the bar adjusted too far one way and should be altered by fitting a different size master cylinder to one or the other to get the bar back to a central position, however I will add that in 40 plus years of racing it only happened once and thankfully I got away with it !

[zefarelly]

I've had minor leaks with a single master cylinder system and they still work, but the pedal doesn't lock. the dual with sliding piston seems the 'safest' howver if the master cylinder seal fails your still in the mire

a pivoting adjuster is not fail safe as it will take the path of least resistance whilst you hurtle toward the path of most resistance.

a working hand brake is probably a better emergency back up.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

a working hand brake is probably a better emergency back up.

I've got a brilliant handbrake that works through a single line master cylinder, but on the "front brakes" for warming the rear tyres up !

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

the dual with sliding piston seems the 'safest' howver if the master cylinder seal fails your still in the mire

If you mean a master cylinder as fitted to all modern cars then I doubt if both seals for the two systems would fail at the same time !

[grantp]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I've got a brilliant handbrake that works through a single line master cylinder, but on the "front brakes" for warming the rear tyres up !

Hmm.

Donut hooligan?

Who would have thought it?

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I've had minor leaks with a single master cylinder system and they still work, but the pedal doesn't lock. the dual with sliding piston seems the 'safest' howver if the master cylinder seal fails your still in the mire

a pivoting adjuster is not fail safe as it will take the path of least resistance whilst you hurtle toward the path of most resistance.

a working hand brake is probably a better emergency back up.

Quite right Zef,its also handy for adjusting the rear shoes in an endurance event, one or two cliks up should restor the pedal to where it was at the start.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by grantp

Hmm.

Donut hooligan?

Who would have thought it?

You may well laugh but a mate of mine that had a sister car to mine left the handbrake on at the start of a race at Snetterton, all hell broke loose as he was on the second row and it was only a miracle that no one hit him !

[Neil Duke]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Try having a rear wheel cylinder go approaching Redgate at full chat and you'll find out. The bais bar will take the path of least resistance and bottom out on the cylinder with no pressure. The other cylinder still has pressure but you can't apply it with the pedal.

With you now.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Try having a rear wheel cylinder go approaching Redgate at full chat and you'll find out. The bais bar will take the path of least resistance and bottom out on the cylinder with no pressure. The other cylinder still has pressure but you can't apply it with the pedal.

If you limited the amount of movement of the balance bar it would presumably offer some pressure from the 'good' cylinder?
Some balance bar setups don't seem to be as 'flexible' as others, perhaps that is a safety feature rather than poor design!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

If you limited the amount of movement of the balance bar it would presumably offer some pressure from the 'good' cylinder?
Some balance bar setups don't seem to be as 'flexible' as others, perhaps that is a safety feature rather than poor design!

Some bias set ups use a spherical bearing mounted on a shaft that slides in a tube- the latter being an integral part of the brake pedal. They are the ones that have restricted movement and can 'bottom out' if not set correctly. I would guess that is the type you are thinking of.

I don't want to be the one that tests your theory, however!