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Old 4 May 2021, 07:36 (Ref:4049547)   #181
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
About as long as the likes of the FGX Falcon, ZB Commodore or Nissan Altima hung around for?
It's funny because it's the thing that people use against Supercars when promoting TCR, market relevance.

But the market is always moving and you can't update a TCR car like you can a Supercar. All the cars above have devalued significantly, and over time I am sure will get less competitive.

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Old 4 May 2021, 12:08 (Ref:4049597)   #182
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Gee, Mixer's quick to link an article in which he hopes is detrimental to the long term existence/potential of TCR in Australia.

I wonder when's he going to link the Auto Action/Speecafe articles announcing that the Toyota Corolla is soon going to be made available for TCR?

Those articles have been around for 5 days so far. I'm looking forward to reading them when he does.
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Old 4 May 2021, 12:55 (Ref:4049607)   #183
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About as long as the likes of the FGX Falcon, ZB Commodore or Nissan Altima hung around for?

LOL
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Old 4 May 2021, 13:12 (Ref:4049617)   #184
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Gee, Mixer's quick to link an article in which he hopes is detrimental to the long term existence/potential of TCR in Australia.



I wonder when's he going to link the Auto Action/Speecafe articles announcing that the Toyota Corolla is soon going to be made available for TCR?



Those articles have been around for 5 days so far. I'm looking forward to reading them when he does.
Btw that is the third year in a row I have read that article and yet the car has never shown up. It is more akin to Mazda's effort. Toyota is allowing their Argentinian branch to develop and sell a car. It is not Toyota or any related entities with form. Will it ever turn a wheel? Will it be competitive if it does?

One hopes it is better than the TCR Focus or Mazda 3.

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Old 4 May 2021, 17:40 (Ref:4049680)   #185
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Audi and Cupra have both new TCR cars.
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Old 5 May 2021, 03:37 (Ref:4049747)   #186
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
The Alfa Guilietta has been axed worldwide:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...d2efa9224fd8fa

Guess we risk the TCR series now starting to look like a second hand caryard...

Golf, Audi, Seat/Cupra all have new shapes, with only one of them available as a TCR car. Astra an orphan of sorts too.

Alfa now no longer, how long do you keep them around in racing?
Audi and Cupra have new TCR cars.

Romeo Ferraris, the Alfa constructor, has moved on to their Giulia ETCR project.

It's no big deal. People are still racing the previous shape Civic TCR, and the same will be had for the previous Cupra and Audi. That there are close to 500 chassis covering those three cars alone, and continual updates to their BOP, they'll be around for awhile.
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Old 5 May 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4049813)   #187
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Audi and Cupra have new TCR cars.
I did mention this but suddenly the $300k Audi is worth how much, half that?

At least the Cupra that is here was very cheap. I can't wait for Cupra to be on sale here, actually, so I hope we see an updated one.

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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Romeo Ferraris, the Alfa constructor, has moved on to their Giulia ETCR project.
That thing looks amazing, but ETCR is almost the biggest threat to TCR, and that's not good that it is coming from within. There's no doubt now that the cars that are now deprecated and orphaned have just sunk in value and you can't get away from that. Real cars can't simply be re-skinned to look like the new one like a bespoke chassis can be.

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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
It's no big deal. People are still racing the previous shape Civic TCR, and the same will be had for the previous Cupra and Audi. That there are close to 500 chassis covering those three cars alone, and continual updates to their BOP, they'll be around for awhile.
The 3 examples you cite ARE sold in big numbers, and there ARE plenty around of them, but the Alfas are not so, and looking at the amount of gremlins they had locally, I have to wonder how much better than the Subarus they will turn out to be...
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Old 6 May 2021, 02:55 (Ref:4049962)   #188
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That thing looks amazing, but ETCR is almost the biggest threat to TCR, and that's not good that it is coming from within.
Why not? It's necessary given the electrification of the auto market in Europe. No more investment in antiquated ICE hot hatchbacks (or ICEs full stop), so TCR needs to follow the market. The organisers probably didn't expect such a quick transformation to reduced emissions (max. 60 g CO2/km fleet average by 2030) when the TCR regulations were drawn up 5 years ago or so, but it is what the European Union has decided is the way to go, so it is what it is.

Where's the news on the eSupercars series?

Coincidentally this (and the popularity of SUVs) is one the reasons the Giulietta FWD is being dropped with no replacement and likewise the Giulia RWD. The Toenale compact SUV will be the last car on the old FWD platform of the Giulietta -- obviously being a SUV it's more saleable than the unfashionable Giulietta hatchback. While there will be no more cars at all on the old RWD platform (doesn't support electric).

These old FIAT platforms do not support elecification or hybridisation, so Alfa Romeo will need to roll out a new platform that supports EV and hybrids.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 6 May 2021 at 03:24.
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Old 6 May 2021, 07:40 (Ref:4049985)   #189
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Why not? It's necessary given the electrification of the auto market in Europe. No more investment in antiquated ICE hot hatchbacks (or ICEs full stop), so TCR needs to follow the market. The organisers probably didn't expect such a quick transformation to reduced emissions (max. 60 g CO2/km fleet average by 2030) when the TCR regulations were drawn up 5 years ago or so, but it is what the European Union has decided is the way to go, so it is what it is.

Where's the news on the eSupercars series?

Coincidentally this (and the popularity of SUVs) is one the reasons the Giulietta FWD is being dropped with no replacement and likewise the Giulia RWD. The Toenale compact SUV will be the last car on the old FWD platform of the Giulietta -- obviously being a SUV it's more saleable than the unfashionable Giulietta hatchback. While there will be no more cars at all on the old RWD platform (doesn't support electric).

These old FIAT platforms do not support electrification or hybridisation, so Alfa Romeo will need to roll out a new platform that supports EV and hybrids.
For better or worse most companies have stopped ICE development BMW being the stand out exception.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a36292...stion-engines/

I don't know where that leaves most countries outside of Europe who simply cannot support electric cars for any number of reasons and I reckon that ICE production is going to have to be continued for those markets. As for electric Supercars.... the penny is yet to drop.
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Old 6 May 2021, 11:49 (Ref:4050014)   #190
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eTCR is just TCR.

You could have a period where a combined class could run, before a full grid of electric cars.

Can someone who's not death riding TCR Australia confirm Mixer's claim?
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Old 6 May 2021, 11:55 (Ref:4050015)   #191
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Can someone who's not death riding TCR Australia confirm Mixer's claim?
How about a post from 2017 promoting Toyota's entry in the 2018 or 2019 season?

http://sportmotores.com/portal/!site...20055&id=49293

Also ARG admits they owned cars and paid people to turn up but they're not doing it anymore!

https://autoaction.com.au/2021/05/06...mjHPPkgDnaurfA

Unfortunately related, TCM category administrator quits:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/06...strator-quits/

With Brian Boyd selling out his interest there is now no longer the wealthy benefactor funding these categories so the TCR cars have to stand up on their own, and TCM competitors are unhappy about the lack of resources available, and the category manager there has some issues to sort out, with competitor unrest about rules and eligibility, and well now there's no category adminstrator or technical manager.

Perhaps not as bad but this does have a littlie bit of a Ross Palmer feel about it. Barry Rogers isn't gonna pay for other people to turn up and race against him.
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Old 6 May 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4050021)   #192
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I'll say it a different way then.

Someone who, unlike Mixer, is not death riding TCR Australia, to verify Mixer's claim about the Corollas?
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Old 6 May 2021, 12:06 (Ref:4050024)   #193
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Someone who, unlike Mixer, is not death riding TCR Australia, to verify Mixer's claim about the Corollas?
Are you denying there is a link above, from 2017, promoting a TCR Corolla, made in Argentina, for release in TCR 3 years ago?

You think I spun up a website just to mess with you?

if you want to argue with something so plain in front of your face, you're dumber than I thought.
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Old 6 May 2021, 12:08 (Ref:4050027)   #194
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There must be something wrong with my computer?

It might not post what I'm typing on other's computers?
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Old 6 May 2021, 12:17 (Ref:4050029)   #195
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October 2017:
Toyota are reported to be building a TCR Corolla for 2018 or 2019. Given the aforementioned information that Toyota attended a meeting at Oschersleben, this information may be accurate although at present is speculative.

https://tcrworldnews.wordpress.com/2...-grid-gallery/

April 2020:
Toyota Gazoo Racing Argentina given green light to develop Corolla TCR car for 2021 season
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2021...w-corolla-tcr/

September 2020:
Toyota Argentina has confirmed that work has begun on a Toyota sedan model in TCR specification ahead of the TCR South America series start in 2021.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2020...dan-tcr-model/

January 2021:
“We are in contact with Mazda and Toyota and we will have soon information about their plans,” said Lotti.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2020...e-involvement/

1 week ago:
Toyota Gazoo Racing Argentina given green light to develop Corolla TCR car

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2021...w-corolla-tcr/

This Toyota TCR car comes up very regularly yet it's never been seen or turned a wheel. So far I count 3 green lights, and churning out the same press release year after year, as if it is new.

It's like a subway train, the rails rattle but the train never comes.

BTW Death ridng sounds cool.

I did forget to say the coverage from SMP was much improved in prior efforts. The 7plus app even seemed to work better than before.

Last edited by Mixer; 6 May 2021 at 12:37.
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