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Old 13 Nov 2018, 12:46 (Ref:3863025)   #16
broadrun96
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I think they are going for spec but not "spec." I agree the wording seems to indicate it's pretty much the same thing for everyone, think the teams just get to build their own mousetrap to the modern F1 style design parameters. Think we will end up with all the hybrid systems being almost copies of each other with a manufacturer badge on the side. However, who else is looking to join? McLaren said we'll wait a year thanks, Audi/VW/Porsche seem to be moved on FE/electrics, Ferrari (insert FCA badging exercise here) well flip a coin for rumor of the week, Jaguar/Tata have FE to play with, Ford seems to be confused about road hybrids anymore, Chevy/Cadillac haven't shown interest, Nissan well that's a story that most think would bite us in the ass, Honda has had a toe in and the NSX design philosophy could be a good base.

To me it feels like the ACO needs to meet with someone, or request it from Gibson, outside of the manufacturers to spec a hybrid system privateers can buy off the shelf. Sadly that would make too much sense, be derided as spec and in violation of the spirit of the rules and otherwise cause the collapse of ACO racing so the ACO would either make it required for all cars or so expensive as to crush the teams trying to buy them.
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Old 13 Nov 2018, 15:26 (Ref:3863061)   #17
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Maybe the wording is being read wrong but it sounded like "the same for all" meant a standard hybrid system, ie spec. That's how I read it at first myself.
I'm not sure there is any other way to read it. The text explicitly says 'homologated hybrid system by a manufacturer'. So any manufacturer can build their own system but has to put it up for sale. I see no way how that can be read as 'same for all'.
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Old 13 Nov 2018, 21:05 (Ref:3863159)   #18
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"What engines are eligible?


Any engine configuration and architecture is eligible with a power limit of 520kW (c.700 bhp), a limit on the number of engines useable per season will be imposed."

Yeah, this basically means nothing....
you can't compare a 700hp 7L V8 GM revving up at 7000rpm to a 700hp ferrari 6.2L V12 revving up to 9000rpm just because they achieve the same power output.
GM will have a better fuel milliage anyway and just because of that would be required a fuel tank bop to set a comparable stint lenght for everyone.

And what about diesels? nothing seems to prevent it.
A caveman tech 1300Nm/700hp turbodiesel will overkill anything else.
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Old 14 Nov 2018, 03:13 (Ref:3863209)   #19
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I'm not sure there is any other way to read it. The text explicitly says 'homologated hybrid system by a manufacturer'. So any manufacturer can build their own system but has to put it up for sale. I see no way how that can be read as 'same for all'.
I meant what Mr. Glickenhaus posted. His words made it sound like it was a spec system for the kers. I agree with you about that being contrary to the information out there. Just sounds like a cap on the power and cost. It would be a shame if it was a single supplier, that's not what the fans want.
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Old 14 Nov 2018, 08:54 (Ref:3863237)   #20
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Engine peak power and regulation limited power are two different thing. You can have engine with 1.000 HP, but you must limit it at 700HP.

What is the point?

If you oversize the engine and limit it to 700 HP, then you can have that 700 HP all the time on the wheels, between the gear shifts.

We can also see this phenomenon with fuel flow restriction regulations, some were very loud (@knighty comes to mind ) here how NA engine in Rebellion won't be competitive because of magical "torque" and efficiency that turbo engines have. Even the regulators didn't believe it, so they have a separate EoT for NA engine, but as it turned out not much (is there any?) of difference was necessary for them to be competitive.
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Old 14 Nov 2018, 13:30 (Ref:3863285)   #21
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Engine peak power and regulation limited power are two different thing. You can have engine with 1.000 HP, but you must limit it at 700HP.

What is the point?

If you oversize the engine and limit it to 700 HP, then you can have that 700 HP all the time on the wheels, between the gear shifts.

We can also see this phenomenon with fuel flow restriction regulations, some were very loud (@knighty comes to mind ) here how NA engine in Rebellion won't be competitive because of magical "torque" and efficiency that turbo engines have. Even the regulators didn't believe it, so they have a separate EoT for NA engine, but as it turned out not much (is there any?) of difference was necessary for them to be competitive.
Consider that R13 chassis and aero are much better than other private lmp1; maybe even better than toyota!
at le mans R13 scored the overall best first sector time and the 2nd overall best third sector. During an onboard, a R13 was clearly able to run flatout at porsche sector.
Then think also that private lmp1 use the same toyota compound, so NA gibson lower torque release should help them a lot with rear tyres wearate compared to insane torque released to rear wheels by AER/nismo cars.

Torque is important but is not everything. 911 RSR torque is in the range of 500Nm and dominated LM against >600-700Nm rivals.

And about future hypercar engines, well, you need high power, lower consumes and a more than decent components lifespan....
guess the only way to achieve this is to make the engine rev as low as possible.... that's way I expect a "min" displacement over 5L NA dyno V8 or turbo up to 3.5-4L.
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Old 14 Nov 2018, 23:00 (Ref:3863372)   #22
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Irie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridIrie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
Consider that R13 chassis and aero are much better than other private lmp1; maybe even better than toyota!
at le mans R13 scored the overall best first sector time and the 2nd overall best third sector. During an onboard, a R13 was clearly able to run flatout at porsche sector.
Then think also that private lmp1 use the same toyota compound, so NA gibson lower torque release should help them a lot with rear tyres wearate compared to insane torque released to rear wheels by AER/nismo cars.

Torque is important but is not everything. 911 RSR torque is in the range of 500Nm and dominated LM against >600-700Nm rivals.

And about future hypercar engines, well, you need high power, lower consumes and a more than decent components lifespan....
guess the only way to achieve this is to make the engine rev as low as possible.... that's way I expect a "min" displacement over 5L NA dyno V8 or turbo up to 3.5-4L.
I don't think R13 aero is better than Toyota's. Probably they did just run more downforce
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 12:40 (Ref:3863474)   #23
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The "insane" torque is nothing more than hard to control surge of power because of turbo engine, I agree this tears down your tires more.

Torque is nothing magical, power = torque * revs

If the power curve is flat at 700 HP between the gear shifts, then it's all the same, it doesn't matter how much torque you have at the drive shaft.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 13:23 (Ref:3863486)   #24
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I was thinking about the Glickenhaus project talking about how they're going to be using GM power for the engine. I wonder what engine they are thinking? Maybe the Caddy's dpi engine? The one in the current GTE Vette? With the weight at over 950kg for the cars, big engines with lots of torque should be a good bet. No reason to worry much about the fuel economy either because they are all going to be capped around 700hp. This is probably the most exciting thing about the new rules for me. We might actually have more than one engine that makes some noise!
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 13:32 (Ref:3863489)   #25
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I don't think R13 aero is better than Toyota's. Probably they did just run more downforce
third best overall second sector at le mans qualifying for R13.
They had more downforce for sure, but actually because of finest aero.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 13:40 (Ref:3863492)   #26
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The "insane" torque is nothing more than hard to control surge of power because of turbo engine, I agree this tears down your tires more.

Torque is nothing magical, power = torque * revs

If the power curve is flat at 700 HP between the gear shifts, then it's all the same, it doesn't matter how much torque you have at the drive shaft.
To have a power flat curve for all rpm range, or to better say mid-close to redline rpm range if you mean this for "between gear shifts" would be required a costant high pressure turbo and a lot of fuel, guess more than >100kg/h rate given to private lmp1. Not mentioning any kind of likely relialibility issues.
To me 6.2L GM used last year in cadillac dpi would be the perfect engine for hypercar rules.
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Old 16 Nov 2018, 02:35 (Ref:3863569)   #27
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third best overall second sector at le mans qualifying for R13.
They had more downforce for sure, but actually because of finest aero.
The privateers are allowed more downforce than Toyota. The rear wing is wider, the diveplanes are wider and the splitter is bigger iirc. Of course they had the best 2nd sector. They could afford to run lower wing angles and still make good downforce.
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