New to single seaters and would like some advice!

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by andy97

I know one of the Mono drivers who had a Vauxhall Junior at the same time as me & he has now switched to a 1980s F3 chassis (a Bowman) & is doing far better in this than he ever did in the FVJ.

It's taken Nick Anstrther the first half of the season to get to grips with the Bowman (although he's still struggling at race starts, meaning he ends up at the back and has to pass everyone again - arguably more fun, but no doubt annoying), and I think next year he'll be firmly in the running in the Classic class for the championship. Already in the wet he is a couple of seconds faster than the majority of people...

If anyone likes to have a flutter on club motorsport, he'd be a good one to put money on.

[Bob Pearson]

Crikey, is he still at it, he was already racing in Mono when I strated in 86 !!

[tristancliffe]

Was he? He's only 23 now or thereabouts, so in 1986 he would have been 2 (I think)... Not many two year olds race FVJ!!! Unless there is another Anstruther family member also racing a Bowman????

[andy97]

You might be thinking of Nick's dad, Phil! He no longer races, though. There's also another son who races an FVJ Mk1 in Mono 1600.

[drummermandan02]

There seems to be so much that I need to test and try out before I can progress with which formula to choose.
Therefore, can anyone recommened anywhere I can look to hire cars for a day and test them out? And any ideas on prices? Because it could work out so expensive is there any other way of finding out what is 'best' for me?

[Bob Pearson]

Originally Posted by andy97

You might be thinking of Nick's dad, Phil! He no longer races, though. There's also another son who races an FVJ Mk1 in Mono 1600.

You're right, it was Phil, for a moment I thought I'd found someone older than myself.

[Johnson]

Jedi have test cars available. And I am sure some club fford teams offer the same thing. On the spares front I know that jedi take a truck full of spares and tooling to every Fjedi race weekend so the track side support is really good. They are also on your door step!

[andrewc]

Finding a series is difficult.

I'm involved with the Mono club, not as driver, but as photographer, and I have to say everyone is very friendly. Unlike some series, its not really thought off as a feeder series that people take on the route to F1, so there really isn't any back stabbing or fierce on/off track rivalry.

Costs are as expensive as you want them to be - something for almost everyone.

Mono has engine options for 1200, 1600, 1800 and 2 litre.

Come along to one of the next meetings. Oulton Park in August, Cadwell in September, Snetterton in October.


You'll need a surprising amount of space at home for all the bits and pieces, plus a tow car and trailer.
You'll need quite an amount of time at home, tinkering and setting up.
You'll need an understanding partner and someone to come along to help is very useful - its very difficult to run a single seater on your own. People manage, but its a lot easier with a helper - even better if its always the same helper.

[drummermandan02]

Some good advice there. I'm waiting to hear back from the guys at Jedi about aranging a test drive, so will hear from them when they are back from Spa. As for other test drives, can anyone suggest any particular place to look for teams, and prices of test drives?
A guy quoted £1500 for a test day in a FF. Is it really going to be that expensive for a test day?!? I mean all I want to do is see if I like the feel of the drive and learn abit about the construction and costings etc.

[tristancliffe]

On a test drive, the price usually includes some sort of insurance in case you crash (and race insurance isn't cheap), as well as the cost of the day (usually £200+), plus money to cover things like tyre wear, engine wear, gearbox wear, fuel use, CV joint wear... It all wears out you see, and your test drive will contribute to that. Obviously prices will vary, but I doubt you'd get a test drive for much less than £750 at the very cheapest. The quicker or more complicated the car the more it will cost.

You will occasionally, be allowed to drive someone elses car for nothing, but usually only once you are an established, trustworthy, and level headed driver of a club. In Monoposto, one example was when Tony Cotton (a 1600 driver) was allowed to drive the championship winning 2l Dallara for an article in Startline (Monoposto's E-magazine) a couple of years back. That is rare though.

[phantom lunger]

Personally, I think it's important to learn how to drive a single seater properly before progressing to slicks and wings. Hence the reason I chose Formula Ford. Slicks and wings invariably means you will be carrying higher speeds through corners, if the car gets out of shape and you lack the ability/experience to control the car then I guess the consequences could be pretty messy!

Although Max Chilton in F3 at 16 certainly dismisses this argument!

[SPBRacing]

Take a look on www.monoposto.co.uk All info on Mono and there is a forum and link to the startline on line (club magazine).
Look at where we are and pop down to an event. you can talk to all then and see if one type of car fits you best.

[tristancliffe]

I dismiss that argument too. The first single seater I drove was my Reynard. First outing - 5 minutes up and down the runway of our local airfield on Christmas day.
Second outing - Fourth outing sprinting at Bentwaters, Brands and Lydden.
Fifth outing onwards - racing with Monoposto or SEMSEC. My first session with other cars was in the POURING rain at Combe with all Mono classes qualifying together, which was a baptism of fire. I wasn't last in class either!!!

So no, I don't think you need to learn in a non-aero car. If anything the downforce gives you much more margin for error at first (until you really start leaning on the car, but that takes a few meetings unless you're really talented).

[Triple J Motorsport]

Your car may be different but my Mygale and both my Rays you can drive side ways my Formula Renault had mega grip but once you lost the aero grip swapped ends very quickly.

I would always recommend not starting in a wings car.

Of course if you have been karting for years you'll have that car control.

You still have another dimension when setting the car up though.

[drummermandan02]

As for having wings, in terms of difficulty how much harder are they to set up than non-aero cars? Also in the event of a shunt or crash then I would expect the car with wings to be more to fix because of the parts, is that true?
What is the most difficult part of the car to tweak and get the grips of?
Im going to come to a few meetings some time, so I can see the cars and talk to some people, so looking forwarf to that.

I havent had any experience in Karts (apart from the odd drive in them), so am I right in saying that maybe I should give a car with no-aero a drive first?

Just looking through some pictures on the monoposto site, this one looks especially nice, its in the Rockingham R6 08-06-08 » Paddock, Parade & Luncheon gallery, and about 1/4 of the way down the page is a number 11, a blue car.
Is that your car Tristan in that gallery as well (no 41)?

[drummermandan02]

Just wonderin, is the car that Silverstone use for there Sinlge-Seater driving experience a FF1600? I have drove that, and loved that, everything was great. That was what really started me off into looking into racing.

Also what kind of gearboxes do that cars tend to have? A sequential or a H, or does it totally depend on what gearbox was fitted... The car I drove at Silverstone was a standard 4 gear H gear box.

[andy97]

The Silverstone cars are Zeus built F Ford Zetecs, designed specifically for the school, I think, and therefore able to accomodate a slightly "fuller" figure! They also run on treaded tyres so a "real" F Ford Zetec on slicks should be slightly quicker.

Mono 1600, 1800 & 2000 cars all use a 4 or 5 speed H pattern gearbox, motorcycle engined cars such as Jedis or the cars in Mono 1200 all have sequential motorcycle type gearboxes. Sequential gearboxes in traditional car engined single seaters are the preserve of Club F3 cars or BARC F Renault 2000 cars really.

[SAMD]

If you are genuinely going to have a go at racing then I would suggest your biggest stumbling block - as with the rest of us ordinary blokes - will be the cost. So work out the most cost effective way to do a season (a zetec in mono looks pretty good from here, not much money, very reliable, modern, and bits readily available). Do a season and then re-group. You will know by then if it is worth all the money and effort. Your money will not have been wasted because you will have a seasons motor racing experience behind you and you will have a pretty good idea of what talent you have.

[Mr.Jingles]

Originally Posted by drummermandan02

"Mr.Jingles" PM Sent. Thanks

Email sent - sorry for the delay!

Lots of good advice here, but in some cases it's just preference (e.g. the slicks and wings debate) and you'll have to figure out what works for you.

Tests also don't have to be that expensive - for example, Castle Combe will let you use one of their 'race experience' Kent Engined FF's for a few hundred quid. Admitedly the experience is controlled and you won't get too near it's limits, but if you wanted something a bit more 'open' you'd either need to have done your ARDS or find a sympathetic track that would let you out in a single seater (Llandow maybe?).

Even then I'm sure something could be done for closer to £1000 than £1500.

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by Triple J Motorsport

Your car may be different but my Mygale and both my Rays you can drive side ways my Formula Renault had mega grip but once you lost the aero grip swapped ends very quickly.

I would always recommend not starting in a wings car.

Of course if you have been karting for years you'll have that car control.

You still have another dimension when setting the car up though.

Mine is a late 80s car, so it loves to slide all day long (watch period F3 footage to see how they were driven by the best drivers - sideways). I appreciate that something a bit more modern is going to be more yaw sensitive as the aerodynamics were developed.

I did a bit of karting (arrive-and-drive) fairly regularly when I was about 12, and I spent my middle/late teens and early 20s playing computer sims (ignoring the games) to satisfy my lust for racing. I do believe that can help car control, prediction and feel to an extend - it won't teach you everything about reality, but it does hone some of the skills required.

Originally Posted by drummermandan02

As for having wings, in terms of difficulty how much harder are they to set up than non-aero cars? Also in the event of a shunt or crash then I would expect the car with wings to be more to fix because of the parts, is that true?
What is the most difficult part of the car to tweak and get the grips of?
Im going to come to a few meetings some time, so I can see the cars and talk to some people, so looking forwarf to that.

I havent had any experience in Karts (apart from the odd drive in them), so am I right in saying that maybe I should give a car with no-aero a drive first?

Just looking through some pictures on the monoposto site, this one looks especially nice, its in the Rockingham R6 08-06-08 » Paddock, Parade & Luncheon gallery, and about 1/4 of the way down the page is a number 11, a blue car.
Is that your car Tristan in that gallery as well (no 41)?

Yes, that's me. Andrew, my brother, is the semi-official (I think - he might be official now) photographer for the series, and that's his gallery.

That #11 is a JKS Speads 06 (? might be 08; I'm not very good at Speads identifying). A 1200cc bike engined, chain driven, spaceframe chassis. Very quick, but I'm personally not convinced of the safety of them as it all looks spindley. But then plenty of people don't like the idea of carbon tubs either, especially as they can't be checked over so easily... The 'aero' is more for balance than downforce, as proven by a Speads at Rockingham who raced with the rest of them without his wings after a practice accident. So they are probably quite forgiving of mistakes. I gather Jedis are really predictable as well, despite the tiny wheelbase.

And yes, wings can be expensive to replace. But sometimes, if you're lucky, the wing will be damaged, but the wheel/wishbones/uprights/brakes are protected a bit (in slow speed contact). Horses for courses, personal preference etc.

I was about to suggest doing one of the 'single seater driving experience' days on offer throughout the country. Rev limited, and not much track time in the single seater, but it will give you a taste of what to expect. A day is usually around £200 - £400, which might be easier for you?

[Dermot Healy]

Originally Posted by drummermandan02

......A guy quoted £1500 for a test day in a FF........ .

If they have a big truck, big awning, shiny teeth, use the word 'professional' a lot & are really very, very friendly .........then probably best to be wary.

If anyone male, over 21, in their entourage is wearing sunglasses then they are almost certainly conning you.

If you are male, of any age, wearing sunglasses and not involved actively conning somebody else...then YOU are being conned
(unless you come from AUS/NZ in which case the reverse applies)

If there is no tank tape and tywraps to be seen on the car, or anyone mentions 'set-up',...then fear the worst...the car will not work.

Anyone wearing team clothing and explaining they used to work with a team you've heard of ......almost certainly was sacked for pilfering or
worse

By the time you get the belts adjusted, the session will be red flagged.

By the time the session restarts, the car won't.

By the time the car restarts, the session will have finished.

Once the next session starts, you'll cause a red flag.

If you are lucky enough the get a few laps, whatever you are driving and whoever you are, all the b******* in crap sounding Formula Vees will pass you.

And, most important of all:

Only people in scruffy Fiat Ducatos can be trusted

Further invaluable motorsport hints can be provided to anyone genuinely
contemplating entry level motorsport

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by FA73

OOOOOPPPSS arrghh!! They stopped them this year - but they can still do ARDS courses and personal 1:1 tuition.

If you are set on racing you will need to do the ARDS course to get your licence. It therefore makes sense to do this at a circuit that uses single seaters for this test.

Back in the late 90s my son and stepson both did their ARDS at different circuits. One did it at Donington Park in, I think, Vauxhall Vectras then a sports car. The other did it at Mallory Park and did it in, again I think, a Golf GTi and then a single seater. I thought at the time that the Mallory course was the best one (Everyman Racing??) as it used single seaters and as the track is shorter you get more laps in and it seems better value for money. Even though Mallory doesn't match Donington as a circuit it still has some interesting (Hairpin) and challenging (Gerrards) corners.

Take the plunge and buy something cheap but in good nick. If you find you don't like it you can always sellmit on. Racecarsdirect is a good website to buy from.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Dermot Healy

If they have a big truck, big awning, shiny teeth, use the word 'professional' a lot & are really very, very friendly .........then probably best to be wary.

If anyone male, over 21, in their entourage is wearing sunglasses then they are almost certainly conning you.

If you are male, of any age, wearing sunglasses and not involved actively conning somebody else...then YOU are being conned
(unless you come from AUS/NZ in which case the reverse applies)

If there is no tank tape and tywraps to be seen on the car, or anyone mentions 'set-up',...then fear the worst...the car will not work.

Anyone wearing team clothing and explaining they used to work with a team you've heard of ......almost certainly was sacked for pilfering or
worse

By the time you get the belts adjusted, the session will be red flagged.

By the time the session restarts, the car won't.

By the time the car restarts, the session will have finished.

Once the next session starts, you'll cause a red flag.

If you are lucky enough the get a few laps, whatever you are driving and whoever you are, all the b******* in crap sounding Formula Vees will pass you.

And, most important of all:

Only people in scruffy Fiat Ducatos can be trusted

Further invaluable motorsport hints can be provided to anyone genuinely
contemplating entry level motorsport

Be warned!
The funniest aspect of this post is the truth found in it!
It is generalising of course, nevertheless......

[jamesl]

Buy a car from Uncle Dermot and go Mono, you know it makes sense.

[Bob Pearson]

Originally Posted by Dermot Healy

If they have a big truck, big awning, shiny teeth, use the word 'professional' a lot & are really very, very friendly .........then probably best to be wary.

If anyone male, over 21, in their entourage is wearing sunglasses then they are almost certainly conning you.

If you are male, of any age, wearing sunglasses and not involved actively conning somebody else...then YOU are being conned
(unless you come from AUS/NZ in which case the reverse applies)

If there is no tank tape and tywraps to be seen on the car, or anyone mentions 'set-up',...then fear the worst...the car will not work.

Anyone wearing team clothing and explaining they used to work with a team you've heard of ......almost certainly was sacked for pilfering or
worse

By the time you get the belts adjusted, the session will be red flagged.

By the time the session restarts, the car won't.

By the time the car restarts, the session will have finished.

Once the next session starts, you'll cause a red flag.

If you are lucky enough the get a few laps, whatever you are driving and whoever you are, all the b******* in crap sounding Formula Vees will pass you.

And, most important of all:

Only people in scruffy Fiat Ducatos can be trusted

Further invaluable motorsport hints can be provided to anyone genuinely
contemplating entry level motorsport

Dermot, you are a rascally Irish tinker.