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Old 16 Apr 2007, 21:18 (Ref:1893405)   #1
SZRacer
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The perfect Historic Racing Series...

Well, I like a bit of discussion!!

With all the other debate/complaints/comments in some of the other threads, I thought it would be interesting to quantify exactly what we DO want from our race series!! So, I'll start the ball rolling......

1. Good driving standards

2. A reasonably distributed set of racing speed between fastest and slowest cars i.e. no massive speed differentials.

3. Organisers that listen to criticism and constructive comments.

4. A reasonable mix of UK and foreign meetings, to cater for those with greater financial/time constraints.

5. An interesting mix of cars, both valuable and not.

6. A ban on artics and pantecnicons in the paddock.

7. An active social element to race meetings (BBQs?).

8. A balance between longer races and shorter ones (balancing VFM for drivers AND spectators).

9. Active support from Spectators.

10. An absence of snobbery and 'racing because it's the thing to do, socially'.

What are your thoughts?? These are only vague comments and ideas!

James
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 06:47 (Ref:1893573)   #2
John Turner
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Interesting list, James, although how many cars would we lose if we imposed 6), and when you talk about active support from spectators (9) do you simply mean numerically, or a greater involvement? I don't detect too much of 10), but that maybe because I don't mix in such 'elevated' circles. Otherwise a pretty 'spot on' list - not too much to ask, is it?
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 06:50 (Ref:1893576)   #3
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
James, sounds like you have neatly summed up both HSCC and Masters and as one offs Silverstone Classic and Goodwood!!!!
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 06:57 (Ref:1893579)   #4
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Good list James,only one thing I would add ,that is tougher policing of the cars that did take part,if they dont comply,then they dont race!!
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 08:20 (Ref:1893620)   #5
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
something close to Period correct specifications wouldn't go a miss.

therefore eligibility scrutineering and enforcement, not necessarily ripping cars to shreds in a bay and holding up the meeting, but a few persons wandering the paddock spotting the obvious like stonking great disc brakes on the bback of a Galaxy, Ally heads on virtually every single V8 out there, Alfas and Cortinas wiith the wheels beyond the limits of the bodywork, even with the arches subtly flared . ..the kind of thing that Blind Pew could spot from half a mile. obviously having FiA or HSCC papers to hand would make life easier scrutineers would need no more than a tape measure to warn some people. give them 2 months to fix it and all the while they're not allowed pots, if they don't fix it, then they can race elsewhere. Simple really, or is it too much to ask ? ? ? ?


a mix of race lengths wouldn't hurt, although I prefer longer something like

1 Hr BRands GP
1Hr Spa
2 x 25 minutes Cadwell
Oulton Park 40 minutes
Dijon 1 Hr
Goodwood 30 minutes
Chimay 2 hour enduro followed by 12 hour Rock and beer festival

thats do me for a season !!!!!!
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 09:17 (Ref:1893666)   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly

a mix of race lengths wouldn't hurt, although I prefer longer something like

1 Hr BRands GP
1Hr Spa CSCC October 21/22 inc Dinner
2 x 25 minutes Cadwell 1 x 40 min CSCC July 7/8 (inc BBQ)
Oulton Park 40 minutes CSCC August 11 - Int circuit
Dijon 1 Hr
Goodwood 30 minutes
Chimay 2 hour enduro followed by 12 hour Rock and beer festival
and can I add Nordschleife and Daytona?
Admittedly we don't ask for papers and do allow "improved" cars, working on the theory that if you have rules you have to police them; if you don;t, then no-one can "cheat" and also no-one can protest somebody else - always an annoying thing to happen to ruin your weekend. We do have Dunlop-shod classes too.

Nuf said.
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 10:22 (Ref:1893714)   #7
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi John,

Well, active support from spectators really means that there is a real two-way relationship with spectators over and above the 'friends and family' contingent. This is a difficult one to pull off, but when it works (e.g. Castle Combe on Bank Holidays, and surprisingly so, Snetterton, as examples), there is a real feeling of 'shared experience'.

My experience of racing at the Goodwood Revival was made special by the huge numbers of spectators in the stands. This was not for any vanity reasons on my part, but more down to the huge feeling of 'occasion' this engendered. And yes, we've all raced at Silverstone, in the rain, with about 3 people watching.

Regarding point 10, this is one of my pet rants, and i could write a long essay on the subject, but as someone who has raced Classic cars on and off for nearly 10 years, I have slowly watched the erosion of the genuine clubby, low-key atmosphere, and bonhommie, to be replaced by some very wealthy racers who are in it:

a. To show off how much money they've got.

b. Because they think it somehow gives them access to a desirable social scene.

c. To show off how much 'better' their million-pound car is than anyone else's.

This, IMHO, has led to the ever-larger transporter and Winnebago syndrome, and the general disparaging attitude these particular racers have to anyone who they feel is not in their same 'class'.

This is a far cry from when I started racing, when noe of the great things about the sport was that whether you were in a 250 GTO or a Fiat 500, everybody had respect and 'time' for everybody else. It was about a shared love for the cars and the sport.

Nowadays, I'm talking about a situation where one walks around a Historic paddock at major race meetings, only to find all the cars roped off, their drivers watching a plasma TV in the Winnebago, and the 'hangers-on' sitting in their roped-off area next to the artic, casting disparaging glances at 'the general public'.

No wonder spectators at these meetings are declining!!

Goodwood shows that you can run a meeting without all this paraphernalia IN THE PADDOCK, that transporters and Winnebagos CAN be parked away from the paddock without inconveniencing people too much, and that this is very popular with spectators.

Of course, oyu may say that this point of view only applies ot the major meetings (Donington in May, Pau, Dijon, Silverstone Classic, Spa etc) but the sad fact is that this is filtering down even into 'club' racing. Hopefully, the HSCC, CSCC et al, can rein in this tendency.

....and relax!!

James

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Originally Posted by John Turner
Interesting list, James, although how many cars would we lose if we imposed 6), and when you talk about active support from spectators (9) do you simply mean numerically, or a greater involvement? I don't detect too much of 10), but that maybe because I don't mix in such 'elevated' circles. Otherwise a pretty 'spot on' list - not too much to ask, is it?
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 11:17 (Ref:1893742)   #8
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
very good points SZ racer. A,B, and C hit the nail on the head, without even having to resort to the phrase penis enlargement syndrome!!!

that element has increased at least twofold in the last 5 years
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 11:42 (Ref:1893760)   #9
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And it would have rounds at Philip Island and Bathurst. We're allowed to dream right? A race just for F5000s is a worthwhile feature too I think.
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 12:03 (Ref:1893783)   #10
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Biff should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So, with regards to point number 2. Which are you going to exclude, the slow ones or the fast ones?

Sports car racing of the 1960's had both.
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 12:33 (Ref:1893810)   #11
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, Biff, if I exclude the slow ones, that's me out of the equation, so I guess it has to be the fast ones.....

James

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So, with regards to point number 2. Which are you going to exclude, the slow ones or the fast ones?

Sports car racing of the 1960's had both.
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 13:07 (Ref:1893831)   #12
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Bathurst definitely . .and Laguna sace while we're at it . . .and Monaco of course

maybe a 70% time limit between front and back ?
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 16:44 (Ref:1893971)   #13
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueWench
Admittedly we don't ask for papers and do allow "improved" cars, working on the theory that if you have rules you have to police them; if you don;t, then no-one can "cheat" and also no-one can protest somebody else - always an annoying thing to happen to ruin your weekend.
We do have Dunlop-shod classes too.
We have seen the sort of problems this can create at Spa last year!! If it's going to work, one type of tyre for everyone.

Last edited by John Turner; 17 Apr 2007 at 17:32.
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 17:38 (Ref:1894031)   #14
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its okay, but put in capital ONE TYRE FOR EVERYONE
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 17:49 (Ref:1894051)   #15
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Originally Posted by esper
its okay, but put in capital ONE TYRE FOR EVERYONE
I've run many enduro races at Spa., both May and 6 hour meetings, and I've always specified tyres - but not just one type but a choice, since many cars can't (or choose not to) run Dunlops or can't run Yokos etc.

So long as everyone knows from the Specific Regulations what is legal, (and Jeremy Hall checks them all - which he has) then no-one can complain. The only problem arises when a competitor doesn't read the SRs. I once had a european E Type (heavily developed with cooling tubes to the rear brakes etc) complain because a Corvette was running better tyres than him. He said he would have to driver dangerously fast to keep up and that the tyres were illegal. He was stupid enough to say this in front of he FIA Stewards!

I pointed out the facts to him and never sent him entry forms again.
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