WEC Rebellion Racing - Page 80

chernaudi · 9 May 2018, 20:00 (Ref:3821129)

Let me say this: The goal was to get the LMP1 privateers to within about .5 of a second around Le Mans give or take a bit. LM is 8.5 miles in length. Spa is a bit more than 4 miles long. If you consider that the LMP1 privateers were 1-1.5 seconds off the pace in the race, you gotta ask if something went wrong, even allowing for the privateer machines being essentially brand new.

There's give and take with concessions on both sides: the privateers are limited mostly by their own money and resources, but have been allowed more fuel flow, more aero changes, unlimited engine use, unlimited aero adjustments, unlimited private testing, among others.

Toyota are the factory team with the resources (compare to Audi Sport from 2000-2006), they're supposed to have a 1 lap edge on fuel range at LM and faster refueling stops. But they're limited to 5 engines for the season without penalty, and have limited wind tunnel and private testing, though their resources do make up for it.

IMO, this is just down to the ACO getting their sums on EOT wrong. If they left things alone from the Prologue, they might have been on the money for all we know.

S griffin · 9 May 2018, 20:09 (Ref:3821131)

I think a lot of it is going nowhere. How can you manufacture privateers to be within .5 of a second of the Toyotas? Especially on a track like Spa. Privateers are always going to be up against it, but they do have some advantages like fuel flow. But Toyota will still be out in front

**Aysedasi** · 9 May 2018, 20:27 (Ref:3821134)

I think we're debating apples and pears. I see both points (as I think there are more than one). But what do I know. Let's just keep handbags firmly tucked out of plain sight and discuss like pleasant chaps (and chapesses)....

TF110 · 10 May 2018, 03:05 (Ref:3821184)

If Toyota ran to the regs, sorry; rather the EOT of the privateers they would be faster than they are now. I think they said something along those lines. I believe what the argument is is over words. The EOT can change, and it shouldn't be hard to make those changes for the next round but for the private teams it is because they aren't yet equipped to see out the maximum of those changes. I think the ACO saw something from the prologue and the scope for improvement must have been worrying them. So they bumped it down a little figuring the private cars had more pace in hand? I don't doubt once on top of the issues like running to the max amount of allowed fuel flow, or perfecting pit stops, the competition will be a lot closer.

TzeiTzei · 10 May 2018, 04:33 (Ref:3821188)

Just to remind people, there is still the 1,55 factor for ERS energy at normal tracks. So relatively Toyota had more hybrid boost than what they will have at LM.

Mike E · 10 May 2018, 06:27 (Ref:3821202)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Just to remind people, there is still the 1,55 factor for ERS energy at normal tracks. So relatively Toyota had more hybrid boost than what they will have at LM.

Toyota have emphasised this point too. They had about 6MJ per 7km at Spa and will have 8MJ per 13.6km at LM.

tomerswayler · 10 May 2018, 08:35 (Ref:3821221)

With the current EOTs, it looks like this when calculated per track length. Toyota will see a reduction both for the fuel and electric energy per km, the non hybrids a small increase if the EOT remains as it is.

Code:

Spa
LMP1H  fuel: 10,18MJ/km  electric: 0,87MJ/km
LMP1   fuel: 15,19MJ/km

Le Mans
LMP1H  fuel:  9,17MJ/km  electric: 0,59MJ/km
LMP1   fuel: 15,48MJ/km

TF110 · 10 May 2018, 16:06 (Ref:3821310)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomerswayler

With the current EOTs, it looks like this when calculated per track length. Toyota will see a reduction both for the fuel and electric energy per km, the non hybrids a small increase if the EOT remains as it is.

Code:

Spa
LMP1H  fuel: 10,18MJ/km  electric: 0,87MJ/km
LMP1   fuel: 15,19MJ/km

Le Mans
LMP1H  fuel:  9,17MJ/km  electric: 0,59MJ/km
LMP1   fuel: 15,48MJ/km

Thanks for the calculations. Always interested in seeing the 'hard math' involved with things like this. From what you just posted it looks like Toyota might take a step back in terms of being closer to the private teams while at the same time the privateers take a small step forward being close to Toyota. This is why I hope they leave the EOT as it is at least for the test day and maybe practice for Le Mans to see what the gap is. If Toyota are doing anything above 3:20 or 3:21 I don't believe they're going for it. With how close Rebellion was at Spa, I think they should be almost the same spot as Toyota at LM, that's my opinion.

Mike E · 10 May 2018, 19:40 (Ref:3821367)

Here's a nice write up on the R13.

Some key bits: same tub as LMP2, with a new tub they could have cut 10-15% off the weight, more downforce in low drag configuration than an ORECA 07 in high downforce configuration, about 665bhp, targeting 3m13s at LM...
Lots of new parts due from Silverstone onwards.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ical-analysis/

XtC24 · 10 May 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3821375)

So Toyota could loose LM on pace after all

Especially with their loss of time in race relative to qualifying.

**Bentley03** · 10 May 2018, 20:31 (Ref:3821378)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Here's a nice write up on the R13.

Some key bits: same tub as LMP2, with a new tub they could have cut 10-15% off the weight, more downforce in low drag configuration than an ORECA 07 in high downforce configuration, about 665bhp, targeting 3m13s at LM...
Lots of new parts due from Silverstone onwards.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ical-analysis/

Thanks for posting Mike!

Very interesting article and (to me) some fairly mind blowing numbers being quoted. Feeling all the more excited about seeing what the car can do at Le Mans now. Roll on June, can't wait!

I note from the article that Bart's been promoted to team owner!

RedSquirrel · 10 May 2018, 20:36 (Ref:3821379)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Here's a nice write up on the R13.

Some key bits: same tub as LMP2, with a new tub they could have cut 10-15% off the weight, more downforce in low drag configuration than an ORECA 07 in high downforce configuration, about 665bhp, targeting 3m13s at LM...
Lots of new parts due from Silverstone onwards.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ical-analysis/

What the actual fiddlesticks?!

**Aysedasi** · 10 May 2018, 21:13 (Ref:3821388)

Well, having missed Kamui's lap last year while walking from the overflow car park at Arnage, James, can you ask Bart to check with us to make sure we're in position before the banzai stuff is unleashed?

RedSquirrel · 10 May 2018, 22:16 (Ref:3821402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Well, having missed Kamui's lap last year while walking from the overflow car park at Arnage, James, can you ask Bart to check with us to make sure we're in position before the banzai stuff is unleashed?

Kamui's lap...I actually yelled and leapt out my chair at home. Punched a lightbulb.

EffectiveSprinkles · 10 May 2018, 22:38 (Ref:3821403)

I watched that lap so many times, the German commentators were the best in my opinion.

Wahnsinnnnnnn!!!

TF110 · 10 May 2018, 23:58 (Ref:3821411)

What's even more interesting is that they article says the FIA and ACO targeted that lap time for them. So in other words, they have their blessing to go that fast. We may see another lap record this year!

**joeb** · 11 May 2018, 01:57 (Ref:3821423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Here's a nice write up on the R13.

Some key bits: same tub as LMP2, with a new tub they could have cut 10-15% off the weight, more downforce in low drag configuration than an ORECA 07 in high downforce configuration, about 665bhp, targeting 3m13s at LM...
Lots of new parts due from Silverstone onwards.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ical-analysis/

I hope we get some good weather to see what these cars can actually do in qualifying!

JoeW04 · 23 May 2018, 06:28 (Ref:3824128)

https://youtu.be/7ALIceGQVqI

How a race car should sound

I know who I'll be supporting at Le Mans

S griffin · 23 May 2018, 09:24 (Ref:3824158)

Race cars should sound loud. But I just hope for a great race

GT6 · 23 May 2018, 11:35 (Ref:3824184)

i can confirm that they sounded good at Spa

S griffin · 23 May 2018, 11:47 (Ref:3824186)

How sportscars should sound

**Aysedasi** · 11 Jun 2018, 06:01 (Ref:3828270)

We ate in the same restaurant as the Rebs last night and I managed to snatch a few words with Bart while he was waiting to pay. He indicated that things were going well and they were very optimistic. They know they need Toyota to slip up, but with a fast and clear run, who knows...…?

CTD · 11 Jun 2018, 07:38 (Ref:3828287)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

We ate in the same restaurant as the Rebs last night and I managed to snatch a few words with Bart while he was waiting to pay. He indicated that things were going well and they were very optimistic. They know they need Toyota to slip up, but with a fast and clear run, who knows...…?

Great to hear, and who knows, if you were to count on any manufacture to slip up, Toyota is to most likely one to do so. (comparing to Porsche and Audi)

Deleted · 11 Jun 2018, 13:37 (Ref:3828413)

“We’re not allowed to be quicker than the Toyota,” Jani told Sportscar365. “Otherwise, we get a drive-through. It’s in the rules."
“As soon as we are too quick, we get a drive-through."

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/j...t-with-toyota/

Delightful tone indeed

RLM and some others are saying they might overtake Toyota on the first stint (before the pit stops hand the lead to Toyota as dictated by EoT), but I think they'll hold back because it'll be pointless risk + the above. They'll just have to wait behind if/when Toyotas explode somewhere along the line

chernaudi · 11 Jun 2018, 14:04 (Ref:3828417)

I know that it's from SC365, but if that's true, it's crap. That's not what the ACO needs right now.

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