First time historic racer - Getting set to go in Equipe GTS

[Pete Shepherd]

I'm a long time reader of this forum but have only just joined up. I've recently completed my ARDS and have my national B license but more importantly I've also bought a car to race. My intention is to race in Equipe GTS which my car has previously raced in. I'm hoping to get an entry for the final race at Silverstone on the 5th of October.

Mechanically I'm sure the car is ready but safety wise I'm not so sure. I have an up to date 6 point harness, I know the seat is ok for the MSA meetings. I have a new helmet on order and will buy a HANS in the new year. I will initially be borrowing my brothers gloves and overalls as he already races. Are racing shoes mandatory? The fire extinguisher however I'm not so sure about, how would I go about finding if it is up to date? It does have a sticker on but it seems coded, I can take a picture if it helps? I have been referring to the blue book but not everything is clear.

Anything else I should be taking into consideration?

I'm fearful of paying my entry then turning up and getting turned away by the scrutineer.

As a first time racer any advice about the above is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Pete

[morninggents]

The extinquisher regs are a bit tricky. Give Rob at RB Motorsports Ltd a ring and he will help you out. He is a Lifeline agent. He also lives just 4 doors down from me so I can kick him if he doesn't give you good information/a good deal.
I think you also have to have the underwear kit scruted these days.

[Mike Harte]

A word of caution about safety type regulations. Although you obviously need to follow the regulations as set out in the Blue book, but you also need to heed any championship/club regulations that are set out by them, often in the Final Instructions package.

For instance, one driver recently had his Nomex racing boots declared invalid by the scrutineer because, although they had never been worn before, they were about 3 years old and were of an old design and they did not have a label/sticker to confirm that they were flame-proof. This was a case where the race organisers required flame-proof boots, whilst the Blue Book currently has them as advisory only.

It might be wise to also study Equipe GTS regulations to uncover any anomalies with the Blue Book.

[Pete Shepherd]

The extinquisher regs are a bit tricky. Give Rob at RB Motorsports Ltd a ring and he will help you out. He is a Lifeline agent.

Thanks will do if I get stuck, I'm sending someone some pictures later, hopefully they'll confirm.

It might be wise to also study Equipe GTS regulations to uncover any anomalies with the Blue Book.

Hi Mike,

I've checked it's - as In accordance with the MSA or the national regulations in country of event.
Thanks for the advice though.

[Mike Bell]

Welcome Pete, and good luck in your first race.

Yes, you need boots, socks, gloves, underwear, balaclava helmet and suit all to comply.

If the seat harness has 2” shoulder straps you have to use a HANS. If it has 3” straps then HANS is optional at the present time in a Pre ‘66 car.

Extinguishers now seem to have round metallic labels that are punched with month and year that they need or have been serviced. Before that the date of service was hand written on a label. This may be hidden under a strap, which won’t go down well at scrutineering. If it can’t be seen, change ext position if possible. If all else fails, go to Scrut with straps loose, and tools to tighten in his presence.

Make sure the external cut out and fire ext pull handles work. They can seize if water gets inside the cable. (Unless you’ve got electric FE, in which case check it’s battery!)

Check Rain light and brake lights work. Some scrutineers will check other lights as well, but not all.

Make sure tow straps, hooks or loops front and rear can be seen, and have arrows pointing at them, or TOW written close by.

Most scrutineers are very happy to help, and are working to keep us and fellow competitors safe. If they do find fault with something, there is usually a good reason for it!

Again, best of luck with the car- whatever it is!

[Pete Shepherd]

Thanks Mike, that's a very helpful post. I think my car is up to speed on most of the things you said but will check and check again.

Yes, you need boots, socks, gloves, underwear, balaclava helmet and suit all to comply.

I've not heard this before, looking at the bluebook they all seem optional but please forgive me if I'm wrong.

My belts are 3" but I think I'll get a HANS in the new year.

My extinguisher is hand written and it's not very legible!

The car is a 1961 Sebring Sprite rep, it's the ex Halls Garage demonstrator.

http://www.sebringsprite.com/nmy208.html

Thanks again,

Pete

[Lancsbreaker]

It may be series specific, Mike, but in racing with CSCC we have racesuit, boots gloves, helmet and HANS scutineered, but not socks, underwear or balaclava......


Of course the unwritten rule of scrutineering is that every scrutineer has his or her own particular obsession and will rigorously check that, whilst completely overlooking what might seem a glaring breech......

I'd generally advise any new starter to try a find a local scrutineer and ask them to give the car and kit an informal checkover in advance

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

It may be series specific, Mike, but in racing with CSCC we have racesuit, boots gloves, helmet and HANS scutineered, but not socks, underwear or balaclava......


Of course the unwritten rule of scrutineering is that every scrutineer has his or her own particular obsession and will rigorously check that, whilst completely overlooking what might seem a glaring breech......

I'd generally advise any new starter to try a find a local scrutineer and ask them to give the car and kit an informal checkover in advance

Yes, my mistake, in the UK it’s normally as you suggest, but for FiA and international events all the clothing you wear in the race car has to comply, even if it’s not checked at scrutineering. MSUK recommend other fire resistant clothing! No trainers though..... Obviously boxers / underpants and bra if you’re so inclined are not subject to the safety regs. At Spa you will have all kit checked if it’s Belgian scrutineers....

[Gerard C]

Warm welcome to you, Pete, adjust your mirrors and have fun!

[andy97]

Pete, a Hans device or similar may not be mandatory in Equipe GTS, due to age related regs, but there is no way I would race without one. Please buy one before embarking on track.

[morninggents]

Yes, I'll second what Andy just said.

[snowen250]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll be helping Pete out on his debut, but on this side of things i have about as much experience as he does!

I'll let him reply with the details on his extinguisher etc, but thanks for all the tips and hints.

I've been practicing my one man Formula One style pitstops for the mandatory stop....

Oh and its a Lenham Sprite (I think...?)

Simon

[Pete Shepherd]

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. My helmet has attachments for HANs so I will be investing.

This is my car



Thanks

Pete

[midgetman]

Oh a Sebring! Gorgeous. Hook up with MGDavid on here, he has built a Lenham. I used to race a standard bodied Midget years ago but my experience isn't relevant these days.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

I know Steve Hall reasonably well, we used to race Metros years ago, so I'm sure the car will be compliant, but dated equipment should be checked just in case.

Good luck Pete, I hope you enjoy yourself.

[Gerard C]

Have a look to your HANS clips, I remember two different non compatible models are homologated. The ref are engraved both on the helmet and the tethers, they must comply.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Have a look to your HANS clips, I remember two different non compatible models are homologated. The ref are engraved both on the helmet and the tethers, they must comply.

Yes, the requirements were changed, thus the homologation number. Later helmet clips have larger diameter retaining bolts, from memory. As Gerard says, the homologation number on your HANS must be same as the clips..... (If you’ve got or are getting a new helmet it will only take the later clips.)

[Pete Shepherd]

Thanks for the further advice, the helmet is brand new so will have the latest style HANs clips :-)

I've found out a bit more about my fire extinguisher, it's a lifeline which was last serviced in March 2018. So if I have this right it will need to be serviced again in March 2020?

Another question, transponders. I know I can hire one on the day, is this the easiest/cheapest option? If I hire one does it need to go into an existing bracket on the car to hold it in place? I don't have a bracket currently?

[Gerard C]

I made some search for you, Pete, but sometimes my understanding and writing are clear as mud… You must check the followings with an official scrutineer. If your homologated helmet shows Hans clips FIA 8858-2002 or FIA 8858-2010 then your Hans tether embroiled label should show FIA 8858-2002. If the helmet clips show FIA 8858-2010 or FIA 8860-2010 then Hans tether embroiled label should be FIA 8858-2010.
Apart that? Take care, some organizers ask for valve plugs to be fitted all round! Right, Mike?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Pete Shepherd

Another question, transponders. I know I can hire one on the day, is this the easiest/cheapest option? If I hire one does it need to go into an existing bracket on the car to hold it in place? I don't have a bracket currently?

If you are only intending to enter a couple of races per year then yes, but if you are hoping to do a full season I'd invest in one and have it permanently on the car. Many of us have a mylaps transponder which works all over Europe despite Brexit.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Pete Shepherd

I've found out a bit more about my fire extinguisher, it's a lifeline which was last serviced in March 2018. So if I have this right it will need to be serviced again in March 2020?

Yes, every 2 years for service. If it’s a steel bottle that will be lifed as well. Think it’s 10 years (yes, just checked) and after that the service agents will replace it- at your expense, of course....

If you buy a new transponder it will obviously come with a bracket. If you hire one you may be able to buy a bracket at the same time, or cable tie the unit somewhere securely! The brackets for self powered ones are designed to be fitted to the car and the unit to then clip in. Obviously recharging has to be done off the car, so mount it somewhere you can get at it! If a wired in transponder, the old ones didn’t have a bracket, but just had mounts for cable ties, rivets or whatever. Not sure about the Mylaps ones.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Yes, every 2 years for service. If it’s a steel bottle that will be lifed as well. Think it’s 10 years (yes, just checked) and after that the service agents will replace it- at your expense, of course....

.

It is not true that fire extinguisher bottles are lifed.

I have this email from the MSA (as was) technical dept:


Dear Andy,

There is no maximum life for an extinguisher in either MSA or FIA regulations. Some manufacturers will give their systems a maximum serviceable life but this is a commercial decision for that manufacturer. A non-FIA homologated system can be serviced by any suitably qualified person, however we would recommend that the manufacturers service schedule is followed.

Best Regards
Michael

cid:image001.png@01D1DFA5.A18EE730
Technical Department
Motor Sports Association, Riverside Park, Colnbrook, SL3 0HG
T: +44 (0)1753 765000 | technical


What this email means is that you can continue to use your steel fire extinguisher beyond 10 years old as long as it has been serviced by a competent fire extinguisher company every 2 years. Lifeline, and their agents will not do this (a “commercial decision”), but others can.
I get my extinguisher serviced by a local, but large, commercial fire engineering company with no issues.

If anyone wants a copy of the email to show scrutinisers (sometimes necessary) please send me a pm with an email address and I will forward.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Pete Shepherd

Another question, transponders. I know I can hire one on the day, is this the easiest/cheapest option? If I hire one does it need to go into an existing bracket on the car to hold it in place? I don't have a bracket currently?

I have a battery/ rechargeable transponder (can’t remember the make, a red one!) and attach it using a couple of tie wraps each time I use it.

The bracket in my old car was attached with tie wraps anyway, so don’t think it makes any difference!

[Mike Bell]

That’s interesting, Andy! I’ve had 2 that Lifeline refused to service, so will make sure that doesn’t happen again....

Thanks for the heads up.

[andy97]

Happy to help.