Historic F1 Cars

[cjb007]

I am interested in buying a car to be able to compete at the Monaco Historic GP. It appears that it is a reasonably cheap event to enter for the privilege of running around the great circuit in full GP guise a couple of weeks before the proper GP.

That being the case, I am looking for a car to purchase.

I know that in the 60's there were a lot of F2 cars that were able to run in F1 and vice versa, depending on the type of engine fitted (e.g. Cosworth BDA or Repco V8), but I wondered if there was anywhere that listed the specific engine requirements or specifications for each formula?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by cjb007

I am interested in buying a car to be able to compete at the Monaco Historic GP. It appears that it is a reasonably cheap event to enter for the privilege of running around the great circuit in full GP guise a couple of weeks before the proper GP.

That being the case, I am looking for a car to purchase.

I know that in the 60's there were a lot of F2 cars that were able to run in F1 and vice versa, depending on the type of engine fitted (e.g. Cosworth BDA or Repco V8), but I wondered if there was anywhere that listed the specific engine requirements or specifications for each formula?

Welcome and sounds like you are "living the dream" cjb007

Cars are distributed into 7 races for the 9th edition of the Grand Prix Historique :

Race A : Pre-war "Voiturettes" and Grand-Prix Cars, from 1939 maximum
Race B : Formula 1 and Formula 2 Grand Prix Cars, manufactured before 1961
Race C : Sports Cars that ran from 1952 to 1955 (included)
Race D : Front-engined, drum brakes Formula Junior Cars from 1958 to 1960 inclusive
Race E : 1500c.c. F1 Grand Prix cars from 1961 to 1965 inclusive
Race F : Formula 1 Grand Prix cars from 1966 to 1972 inclusive
Race G : Formula 1 cars from 1973 to 1976 inclusive
Race H : « Solo Ferrari » - Sports and GT cars with front engine and drum brakes from January 1st, 1955 onward

http://www.monacograndprixticket.com...prix-historic/

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by cjb007

I am interested in buying a car to be able to compete at the Monaco Historic GP. It appears that it is a reasonably cheap event to enter for the privilege of running around the great circuit in full GP guise a couple of weeks before the proper GP.

That being the case, I am looking for a car to purchase.

I know that in the 60's there were a lot of F2 cars that were able to run in F1 and vice versa, depending on the type of engine fitted (e.g. Cosworth BDA or Repco V8), but I wondered if there was anywhere that listed the specific engine requirements or specifications for each formula?

It's rather more expensive to enter than other historic events but as you say it is the only opportunity.

When F1 was for 1½ litre cars there were some cars like Brabham and Cooper F2/F3s that ran Lotus twin-cams and entered some F1 races.
Being relatively cheap and rather more competitive now than in period those cars are particularly desirable and are often seen in appropriate historic races.

Afterwards when F1 was 3 litre there were some races where the grid was filled with F2 cars but they ran as a separate event/class alongside the F1 race so do not count. Both 3 litre grids are usually well over subscribed so getting an entry with anything other than a famous car or driver could be difficult.

The thing with Monaco is it tends to be over subscribed and the organisers can choose which drivers and cars they want, being famous or well connected probably helps likewise having an interesting/unusual car.

Something like a Brabham F2 with a twin-cam in it isn't going to be high on the organiser's 'wish list' (not just the Monaco organisers!) and you would definitely need the car that raced in period rather than a similar car.

Similarly if you had something like a Lotus 24 they will have plenty to choose from, whereas if you have the unique example of a car you should have more chance - the owner of my old Emeryson has done every Monaco that he has wished to.

A lot depends on car budget, if you're looking at £50k it will be difficult (you might get a Formula Junior) at £500k it is a lot easier and somewhere between the two has to be possible.

[cjb007]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

It's rather more expensive to enter than other historic events but as you say it is the only opportunity.

When F1 was for 1½ litre cars there were some cars like Brabham and Cooper F2/F3s that ran Lotus twin-cams and entered some F1 races.
Being relatively cheap and rather more competitive now than in period those cars are particularly desirable and are often seen in appropriate historic races.

Afterwards when F1 was 3 litre there were some races where the grid was filled with F2 cars but they ran as a separate event/class alongside the F1 race so do not count. Both 3 litre grids are usually well over subscribed so getting an entry with anything other than a famous car or driver could be difficult.

The thing with Monaco is it tends to be over subscribed and the organisers can choose which drivers and cars they want, being famous or well connected probably helps likewise having an interesting/unusual car.

Something like a Brabham F2 with a twin-cam in it isn't going to be high on the organiser's 'wish list' (not just the Monaco organisers!) and you would definitely need the car that raced in period rather than a similar car.

Similarly if you had something like a Lotus 24 they will have plenty to choose from, whereas if you have the unique example of a car you should have more chance - the owner of my old Emeryson has done every Monaco that he has wished to.

A lot depends on car budget, if you're looking at £50k it will be difficult (you might get a Formula Junior) at £500k it is a lot easier and somewhere between the two has to be possible.

Excellent summary, thanks! I think I now know what I need to look for car-wise now!

[delta]

Yes fully agree with Peter but you will need £100k to buy a FJ for Monaco .

[Geraint Owen]

They were struggling to fill the 52-55 sports car slot so the last time it ran they only wanted FIA papers, the model didnt have to have run at Monaco

This opens things up a bit if itis the same this time. The web link above is only to some ticket sellers, not the ACO proper

I have a 1954 Kurtis sports car that is quietly for sale, although someone is interested Very competitive at Silverstone but would be hopeless at Monaco (too many corners when you have nearly 400bhp at the wheels and drum brakes), but something like that could be an alternative to the classic single seater approach

Geraint

[rbm]

Originally Posted by delta

Yes fully agree with Peter but you will need £100k to buy a FJ for Monaco .

and worth remembering that 121 drivers took part in the British FJ races this year alone (not all in front engine cars - but still a lot chasing a small grid)

[PeterMorley]

I was probably being optimistic about the Junior price but didn't want to be entirely negative and suspect that buying a car that is so unusual/awful that no one really wants it might keep the price down!

Have heard some eye watering prices for a few recent Junior sales.

We did rather well in the sports car race with the Cooper MG when it was for pre-53 cars but they have now extended the date, however by holding a separate Ferrari race they might find it harder to fill the sportscar grid.

Front engine F1 grid is usually fairly thin (and some of those cars are cheaper than certain Juniors!) but they will be able to pad that out with rear engine cars.

[rbm]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

I was probably being optimistic about the Junior ... that is so unusual/awful that no one really wants it...

does that mean I might have a chance!

[L-G Sjöberg]

Originally Posted by rbm

does that mean I might have a chance!

A better idea is to come and race at Kinnekulle Ring in Sweden on the same date as Monaco and bring some buddies along (front- or rear-engined)