The Historically Accurate EV discussion

[Gerard C]

Your comment brings a question, will our gov' soften its position about what they call old diesels engines after the virus? Paris actual Mayor is still on her way for a no-car town. If you compare with what has been wisely done in Italy for instance, you can easily find a public car park around the town. In France you can find very easily a cop to fine you!

[Gerard C]

EB? Lucky you!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

About 18 months ago I towed a trailer & car down to the south of France .
It was when the fuel taxes had just gone up & before the " Yellow Vests" protests .
Diesel had always been cheaper than in the UK , but was surprised to find it was over 1.60 Euro per Litre on the Autoroute services .

Have the protests had much effect on currant prices & is it back to less than petrol again.

I noticed in passing Carrefour this morning diesel is now down to 1,11.9 euros. Petrol about 10 cents more. Excessive tax did indeed push the price very high for a time, until the Gilet Jaunes took effect.

[Gerard C]

Many Carrefour have a "super diesel" I can recommend to you, John, its worth. Better mpg and better performance. I won't say the same about a comparable product found at Total gaz stations…

[grantp]

Many town councils in England stopped charging for car parking due th epidemic so that people could, supposedly, more easily get to the shops to buy necessities.

One presumes that because of the restrictions on travel and shopping their "generous" offer was not often taken up for fear of being sent a fine in the post for being seen in a car park.

Now, minutes after there were suggestions that restrictions might be easing, they are reinstating and in some cases increasing charges. Especially, it seems, for anyone being discouraged form using public transport because they have no hope of making it appear safe even by crippling its capacity.

I have yet to hear of any councils announcing that their staff, especially the non-front line and the over remunerated executives, have volunteered to take a pay cut. They much prefer to try to recover their supposed losses from those who are now being asked to travel in order for work to restart.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Your comment brings a question, will our gov' soften its position about what they call old diesels engines after the virus? Paris actual Mayor is still on her way for a no-car town. If you compare with what has been wisely done in Italy for instance, you can easily find a public car park around the town. In France you can find very easily a cop to fine you!

Why would their position change because of the virus (afterwards anyway)? The reasons will be the same?

[Gerard C]

Why? I know many people who won't buy a new car just because now they can't afford it. The hundreds of billions our politicians announce they will use to support some activities are not gifts. Those are credits. Many companies, whatever the size, will have to close their doors. Cant see the particule filter become a priority but it wouldn't be my first mistake!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Many Carrefour have a "super diesel" I can recommend to you, John, its worth. Better mpg and better performance. I won't say the same about a comparable product found at Total gaz stations…

I don't realy get the option locally as the fuel stations are only small with a couple of pumps.

Different for you Parisiens of course...

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Your comment brings a question, will our gov' soften its position about what they call old diesels engines after the virus? Paris actual Mayor is still on her way for a no-car town. If you compare with what has been wisely done in Italy for instance, you can easily find a public car park around the town. In France you can find very easily a cop to fine you!

The Lockdown has proved that that vehicles are not the main cause of air pollution in cities .
https://www.climato-realistes.fr/com...pres-covid-19/
Link showing Paris air has not changed with the huge reduction in traffic .

Similar reports from the EPA in America .

Germany is the same .
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.word...pite-lockdown/

And in UK cities as well .
But the politicians & the media are trying to cover up all of these facts because they don,t want the public to know .

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

But the politicians & the media are trying to cover up all of these facts because they don,t want the public to know .

They only do what they are paid for! Prepare yourself to hear that the disposable masks are bad for the whales, pandas and koalas now!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

The Lockdown has proved that that vehicles are not the main cause of air pollution in cities .
https://www.climato-realistes.fr/com...pres-covid-19/
Link showing Paris air has not changed with the huge reduction in traffic .

Similar reports from the EPA in America .

Germany is the same .
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.word...pite-lockdown/

And in UK cities as well .
But the politicians & the media are trying to cover up all of these facts because they don,t want the public to know .

Except it hasn't.

All of the reports, when read without bias or agenda, from a purely scientific perspective, indicate that the air quality may have improved slightly, but there is too much uncertainty in the results to make a firm conclusion either way.

Perhaps, for the sake of sensible discussion, it's better to stick to facts. In terms of COVID-19's impact on the environment, it is not possible to form a fully reasoned and sensible conclusion at this time.

[midgetman]

Tel you come up with these figures from conspiracy web sites. I don't doubt you can "prove" what you want to but I go back to what I experience.

My local little market town is more pleasant, the air is fresher. There are more birds in my garden. All since lockdown, it was sudden just like turning on a switch. I do believe in cause and effect and the power of observation.

I earn my living from the ICE. I adore the noises and smells of racing engines. But in everyday use they are noxious, inefficient and killing people. I'm sure some will see that as hypocritical, but I'm comfortable I can rationalise the limited use in sporting situations as opposed to mass transport. Roll on electric cars, hydrogen fuel cells or whatever.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

They only do what they are paid for! Prepare yourself to hear that the disposable masks are bad for the whales, pandas and koalas now!

They are bad for me! Tried one the other day & it made my glasses steam up! I don't normally use public transport so not a problem.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Tel you come up with these figures from conspiracy web sites. I don't doubt you can "prove" what you want to but I go back to what I experience.

There are an untold number of 'sources', that provided 'evidence' in support of many different opinions, arguments or agendas. This is on all sides, pro and anti.
What almost every single one of them does not do though, is present validated facts without any form of 'interpretation'.
The majority of society would not understand the data fully without some form of interpretation, hence it happening. But many are also ignorant to what their source is trying to tell them, rather than what the data actually says.

[midgetman]

That's what I meant.

Nearly half a century ago, before anyone had heard of "spin", my A level History teacher said "be careful with 'facts'. Consider facts as a sack of spuds. You can stand the sack vertical, lean it to the left or to the right so it looks different, but it's still the same spuds inside the sack. So it is with 'facts'." I've always remembered that.

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[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Except it hasn't.

All of the reports, when read without bias or agenda, from a purely scientific perspective, indicate that the air quality may have improved slightly, but there is too much uncertainty in the results to make a firm conclusion either way.

Perhaps, for the sake of sensible discussion, it's better to stick to facts. In terms of COVID-19's impact on the environment, it is not possible to form a fully reasoned and sensible conclusion at this time.

So , if you don,t believe that correlation proves causation , then the whole theory of CO2 causing Global warming must be wrong , as that is all they have .
But is it just your usual idea that facts are only facts if you believe in them .

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Tel you come up with these figures from conspiracy web sites. I don't doubt you can "prove" what you want to but I go back to what I experience.

My local little market town is more pleasant, the air is fresher. There are more birds in my garden. All since lockdown, it was sudden just like turning on a switch. I do believe in cause and effect and the power of observation.

I earn my living from the ICE. I adore the noises and smells of racing engines. But in everyday use they are noxious, inefficient and killing people. I'm sure some will see that as hypocritical, but I'm comfortable I can rationalise the limited use in sporting situations as opposed to mass transport. Roll on electric cars, hydrogen fuel cells or whatever.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

When you talk of "conspiracy web sites " , have you considered what you would think of one that has made lots of predictions about the climate & what is happening now & in the future .
And EVERY ONE of them has been proved totally wrong by what has actually happened .
There is conclusive proof that NASA is altering historic temperature records to try to claim the world is getting warmer when it is not .

The UNIPCC , which has never got their predictions right ever , but continues the lies because it is a political agenda to take money from the developed nations .

And as long as they control most of the media , enough people still believe it so that they can keep the scam going .

[E.B]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

They are bad for me! Tried one the other day & it made my glasses steam up! I don't normally use public transport so not a problem.

Same problem here. And it made my nose itch as well. Im barely using my car at the moment so public transport is no relevance right now. I only use it to go to the city and right now I have no need or wish to go there.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

So , if you don,t believe that correlation proves causation , then the whole theory of CO2 causing Global warming must be wrong , as that is all they have .
But is it just your usual idea that facts are only facts if you believe in them .

Correlation doesn't prove cause. But cause can result in correlation.

The whole theory of CO2 causing global warming does not come solely from correlation.
The correlation between CO2 and temperature was observed (over decades, not the few weeks of a pandemic) and from this a theory was tested.
That theory has led to scientific understanding of whether the correlation is coincidental or not. In the case of CO2, it is now understood how the absorption and re-radiation of energy by CO2 causes a temperature rise, leading to the correlation observed.

However, what discussions about science being twisted to perpetuate propaganda has to do with the development of EVs is lost on me now. The climate change denial drum has been beaten so much, all sensible discussion is getting drowned out in the noise....

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by E.B

Same problem here. And it made my nose itch as well.

Dites donc les deux Angliches, you dont wear your face masks too long seing your comments about steam and nose! After two hours, wearing this thing hurts! What about your hears with he two strings passing behind? Makes me think I could never have been a cabaret female dancer!!!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

They only do what they are paid for! Prepare yourself to hear that the disposable masks are bad for the whales, pandas and koalas now!

In the UK some of the media outlets have been campaigning against "plastic" quite strongly. (For some it seems to be a case of whether the owners's wife adopts a particularly "green" stance for some reason.)

Now one of them has been running a campaign to collect money from its presumably less than bright readers to be spent, they tell us, on personal protection wear for health and care workers. (Nothing to do with boosting their own feel good and do good reputation at all - oh no.)

This has had the effect of using a lot of newsprint. Does no one think of the CO2 footprint and the loss of biomass?

Yesterday (iirc) there was a multiple page spread spouting about how they had extracted £7 million or some such number from their "readers" and spent it on getting a UK manufacturer to make a whole load of top quality PPE gowns.

All from beads of plastic used to make the material from which the (likely disposable only) protection layers are created.

I'm not sure whether the irony escaped them or whether there is feral group of journalists and editors in the ranks of the employees taking an opportunity to identify some of the benefits of "plastics" and the debenefits of trying to eliminate them totally and quickly.

If plastics are forced into oblivion there are many aspect of vehicles - electric or otherwise - that will somehow need to be rethought and perhaps return to the eras of all metal construction; which could be quite an expensive outcome with high associated energy consumption.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Many Carrefour have a "super diesel" I can recommend to you, John, its worth. Better mpg and better performance. I won't say the same about a comparable product found at Total gaz stations…

I found this to be true at UK and Italian pumps for diesel.

Over a period of a few months, using premium diesel resulted in a reduction in overall cost of a few pence per mile - and the exhaust was cleaner.

[midgetman]

Yay! I've actually had to put some petrol in my car for the first time for ages and it's <£1 per litre :-)

[crmalcolm]

Talking of replenishing energy, Tesla is about to pass the 5,000 Supercharger charging stalls total in Europe.

A German-owned Model S has clocked up 1-million kilometres in just over 5 years, demonstrating that the technology has reliability.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Talking of replenishing energy, Tesla is about to pass the 5,000 Supercharger charging stalls total in Europe.

A German-owned Model S has clocked up 1-million kilometres in just over 5 years, demonstrating that the technology has reliability.

I million K in 5 years odd .
That is over 300 miles every single day .
And 10 or 12 full charges every week which could only be done with high rate chargers .
And the 150,000 miles battery guarantee only covers if you do not do too many supercharger charges .
So how many sets of batteries has it had . £50,000 or £100,000 worth .


Or is the whole story just more of Autocars bovine scatology to try to promote EVs .