[Official] Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2018 - Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 4 of 21

[S griffin]

If Monaco was offered today as a GP, no way would it be allowed, that’s why it’s essential it stays

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed and we all seem to be obsessed with overtaking yet some of the most exciting races have been where we don't actually see overtaking but there's the possibility. Remember Mansell and Senna 1991(?). I mention that because it was Monaco but there have been others. The problem we have today is lack of aero in close quarters. It means those kind of scenes are much more difficult.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The problem we have today is lack of aero in close quarters

I'd say it's too much aero. I know I'll be shot down in flames again, but I would personally prefer to get rid of downforce altogether. These things are meant to be cars, not upside-down aeroplanes. No wings, no diffusers, no appendages: I'm sure Ross Brawn could write a rule if he put his mind to it. Of course power outputs would have to be dramatically reduced, but that could just be used to promote eco-friendliness. And with reduced cornering speeds, the grandstands could be moved in much closer to the track.

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Indeed and we all seem to be obsessed with overtaking yet some of the most exciting races have been where we don't actually see overtaking but there's the possibility. Remember Mansell and Senna 1991(?). I mention that because it was Monaco but there have been others. The problem we have today is lack of aero in close quarters. It means those kind of scenes are much more difficult.

If the best thing you can say about Monaco was that there was a chance of an overtake in 1991, that says a lot about the race.

[Peter Mallett]

No it's just that one comes to mind as someone mentioned Monaco. And Trapezeartist that's what I meant. Expressed it badly.

[chillibowl]

thought the track marshals/crews did a good job clearing up the incident so we could get a few laps of racing to finish the race.

cant say i really blame them for missing a few bits of debris.

so credit to the track for that.

was a bit annoyed about the medical car coming out though.

for sure think these new biometric gloves are cool (would love to see the data it pulled off RG from his shunt) but it was immediately clear RG was ok after the incident so they may need to tweak the automatic medical car release procedure.

not a doctor (nor was it my health that was in jeopardy) so not sure how they would tweak it and ultimately it didn't take any extra time so maybe they did have it right.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

From the stewards report:

Fact Car 31 collided with car 7 in turn 3.

Offence Alleged causing a collision in breach of Article 2d of Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.

Decision No further action.

Reason The Stewards heard from Esteban Ocon, the driver of car 31, Kimi Raikkonen, driver of car 7 and the team representatives. The Stewards examined video evidence. The driver of car 7 and his team representative conceded that the collision was typical of a first lap racing “incident”. The driver of car 31 stated that the last vision he had of car 7 was on the straight after turn 2 which the two cars had successfully negotiated and that he had not seen car 7 on the inside into turn 3. The driver of car 31 accepted the comments of the stewards that a driver should not assume another car is not in his proximity just because he cannot see one, as it is well known that vision from the current cars is not optimum in some positions

Spot on. The emphasis and the judgement.

[JHamilton]

Haas has a problem. I have a solution.

[Aysedasi]

Give it bigger wings?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Give it bigger wings?

Driver capes?

Richard

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Ocon fan?

Stop with the insults, please.

[Purist]

Okay, I feel like I need to address the street circuit thing.

First, for Monaco, yes, I like the fact that it's a circuit that there's not a snowball's chance in Hell would be let onto the F1 calendar as a new race today.

As for overtaking, yes, I do find it frustrating sometimes. A substantial fraction of that is negated by the closeness of the surroundings (sense of speed and maneuverability gained from that). But if I'm looking, they do have space now to ease Ste. Devote, put the chicane back like it was up through 1985, and ease Anthony Nogues. Think these changes would have a noticeable, positive impact on the circuit's overtaking potential.

The scale of the Baku Circuit definitely helps, but some aspects of its layout aren't necessarily any more interesting than downtown Detroit from the 1980s. So I have a bit of a mixed feeling about it. When you look, the overtaking is almost all down to that massive front stretch and the long run from Turn 2 to T3.

In some ways, I liked the FIA GT street circuit of 2013-14 better, with just a couple of 90-degree turns, those two great, sweeping corners, and the whole track encompassing a substantial change in elevation.

[Purist]

TA, you're missing the plot on Monaco. For one, of course the gap between cars is going to open coming off slower corners, which most of the turns at Monaco are; that's the accordion effect, and it will happen with or without the downforce. The cars aren't hitting apex at exactly the same time, so that physical gap opens; when you're coming out of a 45-mph corner, and going up to 180 mph through the tunnel, what do you think is going to happen? And there just isn't enough straight there for slipstreaming to adequately pull back the distance. They had the same trouble in the old days, too. Now, however, there are more corners at Monaco, and some of the old ones are slower than they were, so you get more compressions, followed by abrupt expansions, in the gaps between cars.

And no, the cars are going to NEED some appendages, just like an archer's arrow needs its feather fletching. Those old, wingless cars were about neutrally stable, or in other words, perfectly unstable; they get tipped into a flip or roll, and they'll just keep on going for quite a ways, unless they hit something. So in addition, the lawyers and insurance people won't let you move the stands back in because of that. Furthermore, you'd have to redesign pretty much every track for that nill-downforce setup, but is there even a prayer of being allowed to design new tracks as interesting as Clermont-Ferrand and Montjuich Park, or getting to recreate epic slipstreaming courses like Reims or the unchicaned Monza?

And while I can sometimes agree in principle with lowering cornering speeds, and taking out corners, as Derek Bell suggested after Allan McNish's 2011 Le Mans crash, it can't be totally ignored that the two deadliest accidents for spectators in motorsport history happened on straights: Materassi at Monza in 1928 and Levegh at Le Mans in 1955. (Barriers, and more importantly, car structural integrity, are astronomically better than in those days, but I wouldn't put it past lawyers grasping at straws to seize upon the two aforementioned examples.)

And there's one final piece that explains why those cars of the 1950s and '60s could race the way they did, their inherent inefficiency. The tires didn't provide for the same performance. The same was true of the brakes, and perhaps most important of all were the drivetrains, which weren't able to deliver as much of the power being made, and couldn't do so as quickly. So the accordion effect looked less pronounced back then, and in some respects, it may have been less severe. Still, it's not like it's practical to mandate by rule that level of inefficincy in the cars today to artificially try to get the same results.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Haas has a problem. I have a solution.

Don't know about the solution but I believe Monsieur Crashy has now completed the full spectrum of wrecking out of an event.

[Purist]

I'll mention one other thing about the race itself.

It seems naively optimistic to just assume Vettel could have sat there and come home second without at least attempting to have a go. This is especially true given what's already been said about the effectiveness of the slipstream and DRS down the front stretch at Baku.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Haas has a problem. I have a solution.

Have no idea who the dude with the flag is. Sorry.

[fieldodreams79]

He's an American. Need we say more?

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'll mention one other thing about the race itself.

It seems naively optimistic to just assume Vettel could have sat there and come home second without at least attempting to have a go. This is especially true given what's already been said about the effectiveness of the slipstream and DRS down the front stretch at Baku.

I'm not sure what you're saying there. But you've drawn my attention to the fact that Vettel could have waited a lap and used the straight to effect a pass on Bottas. I think that would have had a 90% chance of succeeding and the consequences of failure would have been to stay in second place. As it was, the banzai dive on the brakes had at least a 50% chance of failure and the consequences ranged from falling to third place to non-finishing.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Have no idea who the dude with the flag is. Sorry.

Looks like Josef Newgarden.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Have no idea who the dude with the flag is. Sorry.

Josef Newgarden, last year's IndyCar driver's champion and this year's championship leader.

[ASCII Man]

And we all know how great Sebastien Bourdais was in F1.

[S griffin]

Apparently Magnussen is now four penalty points away from reaching the limit of 12 after what he did to Gasly. Magnusseen needs to watch it, for all his talent he does do some dangerous/unsporting things at times.

And apparently Sirotkin didn't even get interviewed by the stewards before being slapped by a grid penalty! Madness if that is true

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

And we all know how great Sebastien Bourdais was in F1.

That was Bourdais. Newgarden should be given a test drive.

[ASCII Man]

Sure, give him a go. I'm just not expecting him to set the world alight purely on his achievements in Indycar.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Sure, give him a go. I'm just not expecting him to set the world alight purely on his achievements in Indycar.

Judging by his achievements in IndyCar, I don't think he could do worse than Grosjean.