Massa losing Ferrari drive? - Page 2

**Bononi** · 11 Apr 2010, 16:16 (Ref:2670894)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

I agree with all of that, and in any case Joe Saward is saying that Massa's contract is about to be extended and he is normally a pretty reliable source. Link.

Yeah, it has been said during the broadcast of the Malaysian GP, both commentators are close to Massa, and during his recovery period, spectators had the chance to see how close they are. The links I posted above mostly rely on this information.

Dutton · 11 Apr 2010, 17:15 (Ref:2670959)

I cannot see any reason Ferrari would want to drop Massa. He is just perfect for the second seat. He is fast enough to get second place for 1-2s, and good enough to hold his own up front should the other driver not be getting it done, but yet not quite good enough to take it to a genuinely top-drawer team-mate over the course of a season.

I don't see any good reason to dump Massa. People might says that if he is too quick then Alonso is going to whine and get ****y etc, but I am not so sure. I don't think Alonso particularly minds having equal chances between himself and his team-mate if that is his understanding going into the deal.

I guess we will see.

jab · 11 Apr 2010, 18:24 (Ref:2670998)

Since when is Massa doing "as well as his team mate"? Have people been watching different races to me? He is only leading the championship by default. He was beaten by Alonso in Bahrain, he was untidy and erratic in Melbourne and struggled in Malaysia as well. Meanwhile, Alonso has been outstanding in all 3 races and is only not leading the championship because of his engine failure. And Kubica has been the best driver out there

It is very early for such rumours but it is never too early. We've seen drivers signed for the following season before the next season has even started. Indeed, the Kubica-Ferrari rumour isn't new - it was suggested before the end of last year that he had already signed a pre-contract for 2011

Super Hans · 11 Apr 2010, 18:32 (Ref:2671006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Frank Williams seems to take a delight in dropping his World Champions and Brawn did the same with Button.

I think it now well established that Brawn wanted to keep Button.

JeremySmith · 11 Apr 2010, 18:55 (Ref:2671026)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

I cannot see any reason Ferrari would want to drop Massa. He is just perfect for the second seat. He is fast enough to get second place for 1-2s, and good enough to hold his own up front should the other driver not be getting it done, but yet not quite good enough to take it to a genuinely top-drawer team-mate over the course of a season.

I don't see any good reason to dump Massa. People might says that if he is too quick then Alonso is going to whine and get ****y etc, but I am not so sure. I don't think Alonso particularly minds having equal chances between himself and his team-mate if that is his understanding going into the deal.

I guess we will see.

Agreed.. Alonso is so involved in what he is doing that I dont think it bothers him that Massa is fast and is well settled at Ferrari..

**Bononi** · 11 Apr 2010, 19:32 (Ref:2671049)

Well, he will leave someday, but it seems that it won't be the next couple of years unless he fails miserably...

And Jab, I disagree completely with you... for that read my previous post about his start of this season being the best so far. Although you insisted that his comeback would depend on his condition, he has showed no side effects so far.

Marbot · 11 Apr 2010, 19:43 (Ref:2671053)

He has certainly made a better start to the season than a certain ex-Ferrari driver!

Having said that, both men are still more than capable of winning the WDC this season. There's a long way to go yet and as we all know, pooh can happen.

jab · 11 Apr 2010, 19:47 (Ref:2671056)

In the same way, it's his best start of the season by default because he hasn't crashed or completely messed up yet. Surely it's been Button's best start other than last year too - doesn't necessarily mean he's automatically been brilliant. Lies, damn lies and statistics et all

I'm not saying they should kick him out or anything, but I've been distinctly unimpressed by him so far, other than 2nd in his first race back. He's reminding me of the Massa of old - the one that barely beat JV and was beaten by Fisichella, rather than the one who brilliantly drove through the field in an ill-handling F60 in the wet in Shanghai

Marbot · 11 Apr 2010, 19:55 (Ref:2671058)

Has it always been the case that Alonso has driven brilliantly?

jab · 11 Apr 2010, 20:16 (Ref:2671064)

This year? He was brilliant in Bahrain, keeping up with a car we now know to be quite inferior to the Red Bull, superb to come through the field in Australia, and then outstanding to come through the field in Malaysia without a clutch

**chunterer** · 12 Apr 2010, 16:37 (Ref:2671505)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

He's reminding me of the Massa of old - the one that barely beat JV and was beaten by Fisichella, rather than the one who brilliantly drove through the field in an ill-handling F60 in the wet in Shanghai

Oh not that old chestnut again jab?

I think we've differed on his battle with Fissi before! Massa generally hammered Fizzi for most of 03 and Villeneuve was rarely a match.

For me Felipe hasn't hit top gear this year so far, so assuming he continues to settle back in whilst picking up very, very useful points, then when he does find a little more race speed he will be looking very handy indeed.

On the other hand he is facing a teammate of the quality that he has never faced before or will ever again.

Whatever the case to be up there with the points he's got so far by being 'slow' isn't half bad!

chillibowl · 12 Apr 2010, 22:46 (Ref:2671693)

i wont go as far as to say this is nothing more than Massa of old mainly because we have all seen how much his race craft has improved since those early days. we have seen it and its been proven time and time again he is not to be underestimated.

that said i dont feel as though he has felt the full wrath of Alonso yet. or maybe Alonso has not felt the full wrath of Massa yet. either way i dont get the sense that these guys have been let loose to fight each other so for me its hard to say either one is doing brilliant compared to the other.

**Bononi** · 12 Apr 2010, 23:20 (Ref:2671711)

Nice post Chillibowl !

herowassenna · 13 Apr 2010, 01:25 (Ref:2671750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Since when is Massa doing "as well as his team mate"? Have people been watching different races to me? He is only leading the championship by default. He was beaten by Alonso in Bahrain, he was untidy and erratic in Melbourne and struggled in Malaysia as well. Meanwhile, Alonso has been outstanding in all 3 races and is only not leading the championship because of his engine failure.

I agree with your post.
The way I'm reading it currently is Alonso showed Massa the way in Bahrain with the first corner move. Clinical and clean. Another poster says he kept up with a clearly inferior car, but lest we forget, until Alonso got into clear air, Massa was right behind him.
Australia, Alonso carved through the field and only really stopped progress when Massa, I felt, impeded him. Several times Alonso looked ready to pass but Massa was more robust in his defence against FA than he was against Webber or Hamilton.
Even in Malaysia, before we knew of Alonso's problems, I already felt Massa was holding him up. Alonso's drive was stunning and I suspect his engine blowing up may have more to do with the faulty gearbox than an inherent fault in the unit itself as suffered by the Saubers.
Alonso said pre-season, that we would see the true Ferrari and the true Alonso when they get back to Europe. If so, God help the rest.

To my mind, there are currently 5 drivers that I'd consider leading "my" team. Alonso, Hamilton, Kubica, Schumacher and Vettel. Anybody else is capable of winning races, even championships in the right circumstances but not generally recognised as team leaders.
Schumacher joined Ferrari after a number of race winning drivers had been there. But it was he who turned the team around.
Villeneuve, Pironi, Arnoux, Tambay, Alboreto, Berger, Alesi, all race winners but not team leaders.
Mclaren had Lauda, Prost, Senna, all multiple champions. Williams had amazing engineering depth.
Massa, I believe, is more in the bracket of Barrichello, Berger or Patrese, but he's not a leader.

P.S. I refer to MS when he went to Ferrari. I don't doubt he will succeed at Mercedes, but he is not the same driver he once was. I think Mercedes need him to succeed, his reported wages would be too much egg on face for Mercedes if he didn't...

wnut · 13 Apr 2010, 04:46 (Ref:2671782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I think it now well established that Brawn wanted to keep Button.

Oh absolutely - lets see TGF or Button.

Come on!

Chatters · 13 Apr 2010, 08:39 (Ref:2671842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

On the other hand he is facing a teammate of the quality that he has never faced before or will ever again.

He raced with that German bloke who DNF'd in Malaysia for a couple of years...?

Only difference now is that he is level within the team with his teammate...

johnny99 · 13 Apr 2010, 09:05 (Ref:2671849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatters

He raced with that German bloke who DNF'd in Malaysia for a couple of years...?

Only difference now is that he is level within the team with his teammate...

And some chap called Kimi

John

Taprobane · 13 Apr 2010, 11:23 (Ref:2671925)

Nah, it's been widely established on these forums Kimi was and is completely useless and only won the title because he was handed it. On his own merit he is roughly on the level of Yuji Ide.

True story.

herowassenna · 13 Apr 2010, 13:27 (Ref:2671995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taprobane

Nah, it's been widely established on these forums Kimi was and is completely useless and only won the title because he was handed it. On his own merit he is roughly on the level of Yuji Ide.

True story.

Isn't there a surgical procedure to remove said tongue from cheek???

**Bononi** · 13 Apr 2010, 18:28 (Ref:2672186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by herowassenna

P.S. I refer to MS when he went to Ferrari. I don't doubt he will succeed at Mercedes, but he is not the same driver he once was. I think Mercedes need him to succeed, his reported wages would be too much egg on face for Mercedes if he didn't...

Mika Salo joining TGF at Mercedes ! That's amazing.

**Bononi** · 13 Apr 2010, 18:38 (Ref:2672194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Massa, I believe, is more in the bracket of Barrichello, Berger or Patrese, but he's not a leader.

Uhn... I'm not sure the relation you made is accurate, based on the entire careers of the former drivers,Berger (10 wins), Patrese (6 wins) and Barrichello (11 wins) with Massa's career so far. Having watched all of those drivers you mentioned I can't see where they are related. But anyway, that's your opinion, and I respect it.

**chunterer** · 13 Apr 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2672199)

None of those 3 drivers were ever in contention for a WDC either. Massa on the other hand has already nearly won one title, and had a sniff of another.

There's little doubt in my mind that he is a big name driver now and he proven he can hack it with the best ranged against him.

If Ferrari didn't retain him, he would quickly be snapped up by another leading team no question, assuming of course he continues this season as solidly he has started off and then adds a bit more race pace....

MrTTraces · 13 Apr 2010, 18:46 (Ref:2672200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

He's reminding me of the Massa of old - the one that barely beat JV and was beaten by Fisichella, rather than the one who brilliantly drove through the field in an ill-handling F60 in the wet in Shanghai

No matter what the thread is about you can always be sure that someone will bring JV into it!!!

Why? Totally uncalled for!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 Apr 2010, 19:07 (Ref:2672220)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Mika Salo joining TGF at Mercedes ! That's amazing.

This really is the season and there have only been three races.

herowassenna · 14 Apr 2010, 02:57 (Ref:2672415)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

and then adds a bit more race pace....

Isn't this the point?
Massa no longer has the luxury of having Kimi as his team-mate, who turned up at maybe 3 races a year. Massa didn't surprise me in 2008 or 9, he raised his game and became the main man at Ferrari.

But in 2008, when Massa was fighting for the championship, Kimi at Spa was awesome. Massa had been invisible all weekend, and purely on a bad stewards decision, he took the win at Spa.

France 2008 was another, Kimi has head plugged in day! His exhaust started melting his car's bodywork and eventually had to slow down to make the finish. Massa passed him for the win.

On hs day I think this guy is stunning. It may well be that Turkey this year he will genuinely leave FA trailing. But the rest of the time, he has to be at the top of his game because you know FA will be.

Whatever people thought of Alonso's "I dont want to know" comment during the Australian GP, personally I found it hilarious, he made it clear who was in charge.
Smedley had to talk Massa through a poor period in the race. It's not the first time during their time together. Fair play to Massa, he always responds, but ...
When Hamilton is given pep talks on the radio, he's told the sector which he's losing time in, not about how to drive the car.

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