Massa losing Ferrari drive? - Page 3

chillibowl · 14 Apr 2010, 15:26 (Ref:2672683)

Quote:

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Smedley had to talk Massa through a poor period in the race. It's not the first time during their time together. Fair play to Massa, he always responds, but ...
When Hamilton is given pep talks on the radio, he's told the sector which he's losing time in, not about how to drive the car.

i dont see why this is a criticism of Massa or of any athlete for that matter. all athletes have coaches and trainers who give them advice when they are struggling. and really you said it yourself, he gets told something and he uses that advice to his advantage. but despite the positive results from it you are trying to turn it into a negative.

Ralf's Girl · 14 Apr 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2672865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Since when is Massa doing "as well as his team mate"? Have people been watching different races to me? He is only leading the championship by default. He was beaten by Alonso in Bahrain, he was untidy and erratic in Melbourne and struggled in Malaysia as well. Meanwhile, Alonso has been outstanding in all 3 races and is only not leading the championship because of his engine failure.

I agree that he's not driving as well as Alonso (who was unbelievable in Malaysia considering his gearbox problems), but you can't really argue with the consistency of the guy who's leading the championship without winning a race yet. I don't think he'll stay where he is, but if he keeps up a similar level of consistency throughout the season he'll be on for a decent championship result against very tough competition.

jab · 14 Apr 2010, 22:00 (Ref:2672873)

We've had 3 races, though. You always get weird championship standings after the first couple of races, especially with this new system. It's just not representative so far - Hamilton has been better than Button but is behind, Alonso has been better than Massa but is behind, and Red Bull have the quickest car but are behind

Marbot · 14 Apr 2010, 23:54 (Ref:2672909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

It's just not representative so far - Hamilton has been better than Button but is behind, Alonso has been better than Massa but is behind, and Red Bull have the quickest car but are behind

I think that the whole point of having championships is to see who comes out as "better" or "quicker" over an entire season. But even then, there will be arguments.

jab · 15 Apr 2010, 10:17 (Ref:2673056)

The points system is not a good method at seeing who is best. The only thing the points system is a good method of working out is to see who the champion is going to be. The champion is not always the best driver

Normal service will be resumed shortly

Marbot · 15 Apr 2010, 10:58 (Ref:2673073)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

The points system is not a good method at seeing who is best.

I don't think that there is any system for finding the best driver, which is why we have so many driver threads I think.

strider · 15 Apr 2010, 11:48 (Ref:2673093)

Super Hans made the point last year, which is a very good one I think, that the WDC goes to the best combination of car and driver.

That's why Button won last year and why, in my opinion, Vettel and Red Bull will win this year.

**chunterer** · 15 Apr 2010, 12:33 (Ref:2673114)

But the best driver and car rarely wins the WDC, it's normally the best car and driver......

strider · 15 Apr 2010, 12:37 (Ref:2673115)

If you're saying that the car is a bigger factor than the driver, then I would have to agree.

Andy77 · 15 Apr 2010, 12:37 (Ref:2673117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Super Hans made the point last year, which is a very good one I think, that the WDC goes to the best combination of car and driver.

That's why Button won last year and why, in my opinion, Vettel and Red Bull will win this year.

Red Bull will look quite good if they find some extra percentage in their reliability

**chunterer** · 15 Apr 2010, 13:45 (Ref:2673144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

If you're saying that the car is a bigger factor than the driver, then I would have to agree.

Basically yes, although there have been a handful of ocassions when either best driver and best car won it (i'm thinking Alonso with Renault in 05/06), or even less ocassionally, the best driver won without the best car...... i'm thinking possibly Schu in 03 and Senna in '91 but i'm taking this waaaaay OT now apologies everyone!

jab · 15 Apr 2010, 14:48 (Ref:2673169)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy77

Red Bull will look quite good if they find some extra percentage in their reliability

I think they will. I think what we saw were 2 freak mechanical issues that very rarely crop up. I don't think it'll stop them

And for my money, the last driver to win the title without having the best car over the course of the whole season was Hamilton in 2008. Other than that, it's Prost in 86

**Bononi** · 15 Apr 2010, 14:59 (Ref:2673172)

The WDC is a matter of consistency, being always at the top 4. It can change a little with the new system, but it will still be fundamental.

Mr V · 15 Apr 2010, 22:33 (Ref:2673379)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

The champion is not always the best driver

Nice little dig at Jen's there

Lets look at the 4 champions before that, Michael, Fernando, Kimi and Lewis, which one wasn't part of the best driver brigade there?

**Bononi** · 15 Apr 2010, 23:20 (Ref:2673398)

Uhn... let me see. Michael ? Nah, too cliche.

edu · 15 Apr 2010, 23:48 (Ref:2673403)

Massa said goodbye to Villeneuve.
After to Schumacher.
After to Raikkonen.

Now Alonso's time. Goodbye Teflonso

Marbot · 16 Apr 2010, 00:13 (Ref:2673409)

It's interesting how Kubica is now being 'bigged up' as a replacement for Massa at the moment. This is Kubica that was where last season? And now finds himself out-pacing his team mate to a greater degree than Alonso out-paced his at Renault.

Williams are also said to be chuffed to bits with Barrichello, using phrases like "extremely fast" to describe him and Rosberg is currently 'sticking it' to a seven time WDC.

If there is a 'better' driver in F1, then it's not by very much.

ralf fan · 16 Apr 2010, 15:17 (Ref:2673706)

If this happens and Kubica leaves it will only further fuel the Webber to Renault rumors. Hence I am all for it.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 16 Apr 2010, 15:35 (Ref:2673720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Basically yes, although there have been a handful of ocassions when either best driver and best car won it (i'm thinking Alonso with Renault in 05/06), or even less ocassionally, the best driver won without the best car...... i'm thinking possibly Schu in 03 and Senna in '91 but i'm taking this waaaaay OT now apologies everyone!

I can think of four ocaissions in the '70s when best driver and best car won it by a considerable margin. '71 Stewart and Tyrrell, '72 Fittipaldi and Lotus, '75 and '77 Lauda and Ferrari,

**chunterer** · 16 Apr 2010, 17:23 (Ref:2673783)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I can think of four ocaissions in the '70s when best driver and best car won it by a considerable margin. '71 Stewart and Tyrrell, '72 Fittipaldi and Lotus, '75 and '77 Lauda and Ferrari,

Yes, I agree, but even accounting for them, it's still not all that often!!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 16 Apr 2010, 17:53 (Ref:2673797)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes, I agree, but even accounting for them, it's still not all that often!!

True but then again I'm rather glad it's not that often, that's what makes one season stand out from another.

**Bononi** · 16 Apr 2010, 17:54 (Ref:2673798)

So, basically we're doubting the credibility of the WDC... I think this is very subjective.

BUT

Why are we talking about this in a thread called "Massa losing Ferrari drive????????"

Oh, I think that won't happen, at least for the next 2 years. Have I already said that ?

**chunterer** · 16 Apr 2010, 18:00 (Ref:2673804)

I know, I know Bon, my fault. I couldn't resist the bait once we were off at a tangent!!

I suppose we could link back to the point by arguing that if Massa won the title in the Ferrari this year, he arguably would fall under that bracket of not best driver but in best car...

Oh dear, i'll get my coat.

Mr V · 17 Apr 2010, 09:33 (Ref:2674102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

if Massa won the title in the Ferrari this year, he arguably would fall under that bracket of not best driver but in best car...

Oh dear, i'll get my coat.

If Felipe wins the WDC this year, beating Fernando in equal equipment (and for the record, i very much doubt that he will) then he'd have to be put in the best driver catagory!

**chunterer** · 17 Apr 2010, 10:23 (Ref:2674125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

If Felipe wins the WDC this year, beating Fernando in equal equipment (and for the record, i very much doubt that he will) then he'd have to be put in the best driver catagory!

Hmmmm, but I would venture if he did win it, it would in all likelihood be because Alonso had had some problems preventing him doing so.

Massa is finding it very difficult to beat Alonso on pace over a race distance. To date he has only 'beaten' him when the Spaniard has had issues.

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