[Rumours] Webber's engine turned down, Vettel's turned up

[ensign14]

This is what the paddock gossips are saying post-Turkey. Vettel caught Webber up because Red Bull told Webber that he had to turn his engine down - Vettel was told to turn his up.

Combined with Marko and Horner both blaming Webber for an accident that was ostensibly down to Vettel, that suggests team orders, at the very least.

This could get interesting. Will Todt be as keen as Mosley to use the word "disrepute"?

[Marbot]

Now there's a control that needs to be deleted from the steering wheel if ever there was one.

Engineers shouldn't have the power (or be told by others) to tell a driver whether he should turn his engine up or down. That's what is right foot is for.

[ralf fan]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Now there's a control that needs to be deleted from the steering wheel if ever there was one.

Engineers shouldn't have the power (or be told by others) to tell a driver whether he should turn his engine up or down. That's what is right foot is for.

Huh? So if the drivers engine is about to fail he shouldn't be able to turn the revs down?

Webber had reliability issues this weekend with the engine. So its not the biggest surprise that he was told to turn it down.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Huh? So if the drivers engine is about to fail he shouldn't be able to turn the revs down?

That's what the right foot is for.

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Webber had reliability issues this weekend with the engine. So its not the biggest surprise that he was told to turn it down.

Except that he finished the race at the same sort of speed he was doing before. The time he was behind was the time he lost.

[gert]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Webber had reliability issues this weekend with the engine. So its not the biggest surprise that he was told to turn it down.

Not this engine, but one that was End-Of-Life anyway.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Huh? So if the drivers engine is about to fail he shouldn't be able to turn the revs down?

Was his engine about to fail and if it was, would turning the revs down help a lot?

Turning the revs up and down will not usually save an engine that's about to expire.

It's normally used to save fuel or is used to ensure that you save as much life in the engine as possible if you are in a position to do so, which clearly Webber was not.

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Webber had reliability issues this weekend with the engine. So its not the biggest surprise that he was told to turn it down.

That engine blew and so it may have come as a surprise to Webber that he had to turn his new one down.

[jab]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Huh? So if the drivers engine is about to fail he shouldn't be able to turn the revs down?

So why then ask Seb to turn his up?

It's not just asking Mark to his turn down. It's asking him to turn down AND Seb to turn up. As Ens says, combined with the reactions of key team figures, it's highly suspicious and, if true, disgraceful behaviour from a team that has always prided itself on being neutral between its two drivers. Mark needs to get out of there

[ucfquattroguy]

Here's something I've often wondered in incidents like this: Why does no one ever have the sense to take the 5 seconds to mention a peek at the steering input trace from telemetry of both cars? It could just be my blind ignorance speaking...but wouldn't that give the ultimate "fact" of who turned/drifted into who?

Yes, it's a bit "convenient" that one driver was told to use a richer mix/map and the other a leaner mix/map. Either way, that won't cause one driver to bump into another.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by ucfquattroguy

Here's something I've often wondered in incidents like this: Why does no one ever have the sense to take the 5 seconds to mention a peek at the steering input trace from telemetry of both cars? It could just be my blind ignorance speaking...but wouldn't that give the ultimate "fact" of who turned/drifted into who?

Yes, it's a bit "convenient" that one driver was told to use a richer mix/map and the other a leaner mix/map. Either way, that won't cause one driver to bump into another.

This thread isn't about the collision, it's about Red Bull possibly favouring Vettel over Webber.

[Marbot]

Horner's explanation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84050

Why would the car that was expected to be leading at the first corner have to turn its fuel down on lap 40 if it is expected to be able to defend that lead throughout the race?

[gert]

The only thing it does is explain WHY Vettel made such a desparate move there and then. If it's true that he would get the same message a lap later, that lap would probably the opportunity for him to win the race.

Of course, assuming Vettel was aware of the fuel positions (both his, and Marks)

Nevertheless, even that doesn't give him a reason or an excuse to crash into his teammate.

[strider]

I'm beginning to think that Red Bull brought this whole fiasco on themselves.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by strider

I'm beginning to think that Red Bull brought this whole fiasco on themselves.

Red Bull have failed to hit home their car advantage on a number of occasions this year. Operationally they could learn from McLaren.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Operationally they could learn from McLaren.

Yeah, like next time they'll leave a "bung" in Webber's sidepod.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yeah, like next time they'll leave a "bung" in Webber's sidepod.

Haha, touche!

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Red Bull have failed to hit home their car advantage on a number of occasions this year. Operationally they could learn from McLaren.

why did I know exactly this was coming ?

[Super Hans]

Let me think...

Because McLaren have three wins on the board despite not having the best car?

[strider]

Dr Marko's view.

[blaffer]

Originally Posted by strider

Dr Marko's view.

Marko said that he had spoken to Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz and he explained the Austrian was 'not amused' by the events of Turkey.

Doesn't surprise me if you see how the incident is described in Austrian newspapers as this:

Red Bulls schießen sich gegenseitig ab

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by ensign14

This is what the paddock gossips are saying post-Turkey. Vettel caught Webber up because Red Bull told Webber that he had to turn his engine down - Vettel was told to turn his up.

Have to admit that i haven't read anymore of this thread, but how i understand it is that Vettel had saved an extra kilometer's worth of fuel being stuck behind Lewis earlier in the race. Mark's had been turned down, but it's inaccurate to say that Sebs had been turned up, it remained the same, for 1 kilometer more only.

[ensign14]

I'm a bit dubious about that. Right after the race the story from Red Bull was that Webber had been told to look after his tyres. Now they change it to fuel conservation, even though, judging by Webber's post-shunt pace, there was no real risk. Seems to me that it's a bit of retrospective justification to throw the FIA off the scent.

[Mr V]

Fact remains, that, for whatever reason, Seb had a massive speed advantage over Mark at the point and he (SV) had to go for the overtake, had he not it's likely that both would have lost out to at least Lewis and maybe Jenson too.

Ironicly they lost out anyway.

[jab]

Originally Posted by ensign14

I'm a bit dubious about that. Right after the race the story from Red Bull was that Webber had been told to look after his tyres. Now they change it to fuel conservation, even though, judging by Webber's post-shunt pace, there was no real risk. Seems to me that it's a bit of retrospective justification to throw the FIA off the scent.

Indeed. Horner also initially said they were on the same engine settings

Don't think I've ever said this before, but I don't believe Red Bull

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Fact remains, that, for whatever reason, Seb had a massive speed advantage over Mark at the point and he (SV) had to go for the overtake, had he not it's likely that both would have lost out to at least Lewis and maybe Jenson too.

Ironicly they lost out anyway.

Yeah, but Vettel went the wrong way. Webber left the outside for him.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Yeah, but Vettel went the wrong way. Webber left the outside for him.

Webber didn't leave anything for him! Why would he?