Tech Issue BBC's Andrew Benson on Twitter : KERS and adjustable rear wings next year

duke_toaster · 13 Jun 2010, 12:46 (Ref:2711011)

Quote:

Looks like adjustable rear wings to help overtaking and more powerful than 2009 Kers will be in for 2011, Ross Brawn confirmed today

We don't have the proposed implementations, but ... thoughts? I hope rather than as a gimmick, the rear wings are just done like the current movable front wings.

Pingguest · 13 Jun 2010, 13:19 (Ref:2711041)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

We don't have the proposed implementations, but ... thoughts? I hope rather than as a gimmick, the rear wings are just done like the current movable front wings.

Just a little bit more of the same?

duke_toaster · 13 Jun 2010, 13:40 (Ref:2711059)

Yeah, that rather than any proximity based system which there was some talk about.

Pingguest · 13 Jun 2010, 14:58 (Ref:2711135)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Yeah, that rather than any proximity based system which there was some talk about.

What about getting rid of a flawed concept?
For some inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZX63o64mo

Dutton · 13 Jun 2010, 18:22 (Ref:2711306)

KERS is allowed this year, it is just FOTA agreed not to use it. So, in other words, FOTA have agreed it is cool to use it again.

Or am I confused, and KERS is in fact not allowed by the current regs?

duke_toaster · 13 Jun 2010, 18:31 (Ref:2711318)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

KERS is allowed this year, it is just FOTA agreed not to use it. So, in other words, FOTA have agreed it is cool to use it again.

Or am I confused, and KERS is in fact not allowed by the current regs?

Yeah, it's a FOTA agreement not to use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What about getting rid of a flawed concept?
For some inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZX63o64mo

It's not a sensible idea to look at Formula Ford - the motorsport version of Heartbeat* - for aero ideas. Do we really want to see F1 cars that are slower than F3 machinery? Formula Ford races are generally so exciting due to the closely matched machinery, not the aero regs. The selection of circuits doesn't help, the problem in Bahrain was Bahrain.

* The TV series that needs pensioning off where it's been the 1960s for eighteen years

Pingguest · 13 Jun 2010, 20:09 (Ref:2711421)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

It's not a sensible idea to look at Formula Ford - the motorsport version of Heartbeat* - for aero ideas. Do we really want to see F1 cars that are slower than F3 machinery? Formula Ford races are generally so exciting due to the closely matched machinery, not the aero regs. The selection of circuits doesn't help, the problem in Bahrain was Bahrain.

* The TV series that needs pensioning off where it's been the 1960s for eighteen years

Rory Byrne once said that the GP2-cars would be faster if Formula 1 would get rid of downforce, as if Formula 1 would keep a very little it might still be faster. Any way, GP2 and Formula 3 are feeder series. If Formula 1 decides to get rid of a flawed concept, it would be very illogical for the feeder series to follow suit.

ECW Dan Selby · 14 Jun 2010, 08:23 (Ref:2711717)

So, what do we rekon on this guys? Anyone got any more info?

It sounded gimmicky at first, but i'd really want to see it demonstrated between 2 evenly matched cars. I had a dream Lewis did this last night with a Ferrari

Selby

wnut · 14 Jun 2010, 09:36 (Ref:2711750)

I am totally with Pinguest on this one!
I do not car what the ultimate lap speed is, but care desperately how good the wheel to whel racing is.

This is just the aerodynamicists of the OWG and taking the p again!

duke_toaster · 14 Jun 2010, 11:49 (Ref:2711821)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

So, what do we rekon on this guys? Anyone got any more info?

It sounded gimmicky at first, but i'd really want to see it demonstrated between 2 evenly matched cars. I had a dream Lewis did this last night with a Ferrari

Selby

A while ago I heard that next year's KERS might have double the output energy, meaning it would be more time but not necessarily more power.

The adjustable rear wing could help, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the package. I'd like to see these outwash front wings dealt with, they are supposedly a problem. We don't need to over-dramatise this, it's nowhere near as dull as Bahrain was.

Birddog07 · 15 Jun 2010, 11:43 (Ref:2712513)

Anything mentioned on the banning of double diffusers and less aero?

duke_toaster · 15 Jun 2010, 11:58 (Ref:2712521)

DDDs will be banned next year, and the diffuser height reduced significantly.

ECW Dan Selby · 15 Jun 2010, 13:00 (Ref:2712552)

Sadly, I havn't heard any developments on aero cuts. I don't think there will be any.

Selby

Marbot · 15 Jun 2010, 13:08 (Ref:2712559)

DDDs are definitely for the chop next season and the diffuser height will also be reduced by 25mm.

Hopefully the adjustable wings and KERS will also come in, but both systems need to make more of a difference than the previous KERS and moveable aero systems have done.

Maybe also some form of equivellance formula. So, for instance if you don't have KERS you can have more engine rpm instead.

ECW Dan Selby · 15 Jun 2010, 13:22 (Ref:2712572)

That'd be interesting.

I still think Mosley's idea the other year was decent - the whole budget cap/limited work on car comprimise was really interesting.

Selby

Marbot · 15 Jun 2010, 13:49 (Ref:2712586)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

That'd be interesting.

I still think Mosley's idea the other year was decent - the whole budget cap/limited work on car comprimise was really interesting.

Selby

It was, and what a lot of people didn't understand about the budget cap was that the cap itself only restricted the spending on the cars. McLaren, Ferrari etc could still spend millions and millions on everything else (drivers, hospitality, watches etc) if they wanted to, and we could now be watching cars with much more innovative thinking behind them. Oh well, it's not too bad as it is I suppose.

Birddog07 · 16 Jun 2010, 10:45 (Ref:2713086)

A budget cap on the cars would be nice, 10,000 Euros for a tenth is rediculous. And what ever happened to smooth body work of 2009? We're starting to see shark gills, shark fins, winglets, side mirror posts (where most of the cars had them mounted before the ban, yet the ugly aero pieces still remain), and wing sizes need to return to normal, perhaps a wider tire next too.

ECW Dan Selby · 16 Jun 2010, 11:07 (Ref:2713101)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birddog07

A budget cap on the cars would be nice, 10,000 Euros for a tenth is rediculous. And what ever happened to smooth body work of 2009? We're starting to see shark gills, shark fins, winglets, side mirror posts (where most of the cars had them mounted before the ban, yet the ugly aero pieces still remain), and wing sizes need to return to normal, perhaps a wider tire next too.

Check out my 'What would you do to F1?' reply

1st page

Selby

Birddog07 · 16 Jun 2010, 12:15 (Ref:2713132)

Read and noted. I've copy pastaed my ideas in aswell as posted some about the tracks.

wnut · 16 Jun 2010, 12:58 (Ref:2713147)

If F1 is losing the DDD, then the adjustable rear wing is just a way of clawing back the downforce they have lost and shedding drag on the straight. Also code for: we managed to get more downforce than we can use from the front wing and want an extra aero device to balance the car so we can use it.
This will actually make the front wing more sensitive to wake turbulence as it will be expected to generate more downforce in clean air!

Time to make the front wing single element, constant chord, only as wide as the width between the front wheels, and hopefully spec!

neiltb · 17 Jun 2010, 01:09 (Ref:2713474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

If F1 is losing the DDD, then the adjustable rear wing is just a way of clawing back the downforce they have lost and shedding drag on the straight. Also code for: we managed to get more downforce than we can use from the front wing and want an extra aero device to balance the car so we can use it.
This will actually make the front wing more sensitive to wake turbulence as it will be expected to generate more downforce in clean air!

Time to make the front wing single element, constant chord, only as wide as the width between the front wheels, and hopefully spec!

and then rear dforce will be sized to balance, moveable doesn't work if both drivers can use it.

Marbot · 17 Jun 2010, 13:16 (Ref:2713696)

KERS to make bigger difference next year.

But not as much as hoped, and some are not happy.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84543

ECW Dan Selby · 17 Jun 2010, 13:37 (Ref:2713709)

Hmm so judging by that, it'll last longer, but no more powerful. I suppose its a variable for next season. We saw some interesting battles between the KERS and non-KERS cars. Be interesting to see what teams try and build their car around the system, or which decide that KERS isn't for them. I'd be surprised to see anybody try and juggle to two.

Selby

porman · 17 Jun 2010, 16:18 (Ref:2713788)

Maybe it has been mentioned but what about discrepancy between the 1 million KERS system that the private teams can buy and the 5 mill cap that the bigger teams will be working with. I can only see this exacerbating the speed differential that we currently have.

Am I missing something?

dyewat808 · 17 Jun 2010, 21:26 (Ref:2713979)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porman

Maybe it has been mentioned but what about discrepancy between the 1 million KERS system that the private teams can buy and the 5 mill cap that the bigger teams will be working with. I can only see this exacerbating the speed differential that we currently have.

Am I missing something?

Thats something I thought of too.

I hope KERS makes a successful comback - I still feel it was never showed its full potential.

(Plus, what is essentially a nitrous boost fits in with my idea of a more videogamey F1 hehe

)

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