[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 8

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I've been guilty of it myself already in this thread, but there is a difference between excuse as a verb and a noun.

As a noun, it is an explanation or justification for something. Nothing negative about it, although many see it as negative. To provide an excuse can be to accept blame as well.

As a verb, it is used to remove blame.

In the example from LH, he has provided an excuse in which he accepted blame. He hasn't attempted to excuse himself from blame.

Using the same word as a verb and noun seems to be the cause of disagreement here. Maybe we should accept the excuse from LH, excuse each other and move on?

Il go with that as common ground

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway, what about Ferrari...

has there been any word as to what caused Vettee's brake failure?

i didnt have a chance to see any post race interviews, but what was the cause of Leclerc's off? was it just a mistake on his part?

[steve_r]

LeClerc admitted the crash was his own mistake. I think both drivers struggled with handling problems all weekend, but the crash was not due to a problem with the car it seems.

I'm generally confused about Ferrari. They are getting worse each race. Maybe I'm just a hater though - someone check my post history.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

has there been any word as to what caused Vettee's brake failure?

i didnt have a chance to see any post race interviews, but what was the cause of Leclerc's off? was it just a mistake on his part?

Vettee said his brake line exploded, though that sounds a little over dramatic.

https://youtu.be/9hEKaNzXOLk

As for Leclerc, iirc it was cold tyres.

[gert]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

has there been any word as to what caused Vettel's brake failure?

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Vettel said his brake line exploded, though that sounds a little over dramatic.

Replays showed something at the lower left rear was on fire briefly (on the straight between Ascari and Parabolica or the one just before). I have no idea if that was a brake line or not.

[S griffin]

For me the most emotional moment of the GP wasn’t Gasly’s win, but Russell and Latifi’s radio messages on the slowing down lap, paying tribute to the Williams family. Really a touching moment

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

Lewis' radio comms following his pit lane entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMDAV7jX4Vg

That is a good listen. Doesn’t change anything, but there are some little nuances which are of interest.

Doesn’t change that he just didn’t look at the marshal posts. As indicated before the race by the organisers with a diagram this is where pit lane info would be shown. He could have glanced at this as he knew he was coming into the pits.

Small titbit. Also the conversation confirms that the “risk it” was about doing 2 laps or 1 lap before stopping. Not an ignore the rule.

Interesting to hear. He seems quite down about it all.

But a good conversation. Like it. Thanks for the link wnut.

A mess up. A complete mess up by Lewis (and a bit the team). Not much more to say.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Happens.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway, what about Ferrari...

There is a lot to talk about on this. One key moment that hasn’t been discussed and is unresolved is,

Vettel seemed to have a tape measure in his car during qualifying - he threw out of the car when he was eliminated.

Why did Vettel have a tape measure in his car in qualifying?

This is the big question.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Adam43

There is a lot to talk about on this. One key moment that hasn’t been discussed and is unresolved is,

Vettel seemed to have a tape measure in his car during qualifying - he threw out of the car when he was eliminated.

Why did Vettel have a tape measure in his car in qualifying?

This is the big question.

Perhaps it was so he could accurately measure how far behind he was?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by gert

Replays showed something at the lower left rear was on fire briefly (on the straight between Ascari and Parabolica or the one just before). I have no idea if that was a brake line or not.

I can't find any real mention of what happened. I did see the replay of the fire. I did see some mention that they knew something was up with the left rear and had asked him to shift brake bias to front as well as to run in clear air. I assume they were watching a temp sensor go up on the left rear brake.

Originally Posted by Adam43

There is a lot to talk about on this. One key moment that hasn’t been discussed and is unresolved is,

Vettel seemed to have a tape measure in his car during qualifying - he threw out of the car when he was eliminated.

Why did Vettel have a tape measure in his car in qualifying?

This is the big question.

Was it for sure a tape measure? It sure did look like it was. I was wondering if he was out on track with a tape measure rattling around by his feet! Can you imagine the drama if he had a serious accident and it was found that something like that was blocking a brake pedal!

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

Perhaps it was so he could accurately measure how far behind he was?

I missed qualifying. Is there a photo or footage of the tape measure? I tried Googling but found nothing.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Slightly off topic, but I don't think there is much in it between Bottas and the last guy to sit in that seat, Nico Rosberg. Rosberg was the better race driver and they are pretty similar in terms of qualifying pace.

The main difference between the two is that Rosberg had an almost superhuman ability to bounce back from ritual humiliation. This kept him in the hunt when things went badly, weirdly wrong for Hamilton in 2014 and, spawny but successfully, in 2016.

Bottas, on the other hand, has a tendency to let his head drop.

They share much the same weaknesses I would say, but Bottas has been made to look significantly worse due to this generation of cars being much more difficult to overtake in when things go wrong and the fact that he has often not just had Lewis as opposition with everyone else miles behind.

A complaint I see a lot about Bottas is that he doesn't try hard enough to overtake Lewis like Nico did. But, really, how often was Rosberg successful in that quest? Most of the time he came off looking like a clumsy oaf, gaining nothing but souring the atmosphere at Mercedes. And it wasn't like he made that many attempt anyways.

On top of this, Lewis has simply got better and better. He is almost bullet proof.

Retiring at the end of 2016 was the best thing Rosberg did in his career. He has become an all time legend simply by not bothering to turn up to races anymore.

Its stuff like this sprinkled into so many posts that make it impossible to even slightly criticize hamilton without tedious pushback.

"Ritual humiliation" of Rosberg?
Things only can go wrong for hamilton "weirdly"?
Putting all blame for clumsiness of wheel to wheel to racing between Rosberg and hamilton down to Rosberg being an "oaf"
Hamilton "bullet-proof" (ok, add onto being the top driver in top car, he has a horseshoe firmly implanted, I concede this point)

Rosberg was good enough to beat hamilton. If you want to ascribe bad luck to hamilton to diminish Rosberg's win, then let's discount Hamilton's titles because of all his good luck. (Hes had lots of it). Even in this race, he has a problem, but sure enough, bottas had an ailing car (they were trying to repair it during red flag) and verstappen drops out through no fault of his own. Its stuff like that that needs to be used to discredit his championships if you're going to discredit Rosberg's due to Hamilton's bad luck or good luck for Rosberg.

When this is the prevailing view of hamilton, even saying he initially made an excuse before owning up to it (being human), becomes a pages long argument.

By the way, did giovanazi go scooting up to the stewards during the red flag to "discuss" his penalty, or was that only hamilton?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by gert

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
has there been any word as to what caused Vettel's brake failure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Vettel said his brake line exploded, though that sounds a little over dramatic.

agree to disagree on the proper way to spell his name!



and here are some more pictures:

what a difference a year makes.

2019


2020


although after their performance maybe for the best the Tifosi were not present?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Happens.

i really wish i had wrote **** happens!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Doesn’t change that he just didn’t look at the marshal posts. As indicated before the race by the organisers with a diagram this is where pit lane info would be shown. He could have glanced at this as he knew he was coming into the pits.

Agree with this. It was in the pre race notes, ones which the other teams and drivers seemed to pay attention to.

I don’t even think it was ‘unlucky’ as some have mentioned....that means Lewis wasn’t in control of his actions, which he clearly was. Luck had nothing to do with it, he just made a mistake and paid dearly for it.

Unfortunate, yes....unlucky, no.

Still, as Mercedes have said post race, they learn from these things and will make sure it doesn’t happen again.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

agree to disagree on the proper way to spell his name!

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/f1-seb...ese-grand-prix

[Greem]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Its stuff like this sprinkled into so many posts that make it impossible to even slightly criticize hamilton without tedious pushback.

'Twas ever thus. There's always one, sometimes two, rarely three untouchables for whose fans any form of criticism is seen as a declaration of war.

I might not have been here, specifically, at the time but Schumacher's reign in the Ferrari era saw some utterly appalling abuse thrown around - in both directions. Same with Vettel in the days where RBR dominated.

Nowadays, largely, Tenths is better than that; and we all need to remember that. We all contribute to the good, and we all contribute to the bad. Let's try to keep it the former.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I missed qualifying. Is there a photo or footage of the tape measure? I tried Googling but found nothing.

I heard someone describe it as a buckle?

Actually, I understand it was his MP3 player. He'd been listening to Chris Rea's 'La Passione' during his qualifying runs.....

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Its stuff like this sprinkled into so many posts that make it impossible to even slightly criticize hamilton without tedious pushback.

"Ritual humiliation" of Rosberg?
Things only can go wrong for hamilton "weirdly"?
Putting all blame for clumsiness of wheel to wheel to racing between Rosberg and hamilton down to Rosberg being an "oaf"
Hamilton "bullet-proof" (ok, add onto being the top driver in top car, he has a horseshoe firmly implanted, I concede this point)

Rosberg was good enough to beat hamilton. If you want to ascribe bad luck to hamilton to diminish Rosberg's win, then let's discount Hamilton's titles because of all his good luck. (Hes had lots of it). Even in this race, he has a problem, but sure enough, bottas had an ailing car (they were trying to repair it during red flag) and verstappen drops out through no fault of his own. Its stuff like that that needs to be used to discredit his championships if you're going to discredit Rosberg's due to Hamilton's bad luck or good luck for Rosberg.

When this is the prevailing view of hamilton, even saying he initially made an excuse before owning up to it (being human), becomes a pages long argument.

By the way, did giovanazi go scooting up to the stewards during the red flag to "discuss" his penalty, or was that only hamilton?

Unfortunately when you construct posts like this, and your previous ones, you become part of the problem at which people ‘push back’

Maybe a less confrontational tone might be more conducive to less ‘push back’.

As Greem said we are all responsible For keeping this one happy family....I know I am no angel either but it works both ways

[Aysedasi]

So, what happened it the Grand Prix then, I'm beginning to feel as though I must have completely missed it.......

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I heard someone describe it as a buckle?

Actually, I understand it was his MP3 player. He'd been listening to Chris Rea's 'La Passione' during his qualifying runs.....

The Road To Hell, would have been more appropriate.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I heard someone describe it as a buckle?

Actually, I understand it was his MP3 player. He'd been listening to Chris Rea's 'La Passione' during his qualifying runs.....

I heard the buckle explanation from DC on the Channel 4 coverage.As for what is wrong at Ferrari,so-so car,down on power and not being run very proficiently.In spite of the largest budget in the business.I do wonder whether Gene Has might be asking himself if buying permitted parts from Alpha Tauri might be the way forward.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The Road To Hell, would have been more appropriate.

Ah yes, quite so!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Ah yes, quite so!

Add Money for Nothing to that playlist......

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So, what happened it the Grand Prix then, I'm beginning to feel as though I must have completely missed it.......

To be fair, no one took me up on the question of whether the dnf's were better for ferrari than actually finishing in 12th or 14th or wherever, completing the race

Or the cool tifosi storyline of their new driver finishing 2and.

But "that" part of my post generated lots of conversation, haha.