Now they are just getting silly...

[RickP:Clio51]

Just seen the calender for FIA GT3 for 2010 on the font of all wisdom (Dailysportscar) and I'm drawing a few conclusions here about the shape of the calender for GT4 from it...

The conclusion is what kind of daft b*gger came up with a Championship where other than Silverstone the nearest round to Dover is Ricard at 800 miles?????

I knew SRO liked to head to the cheapy tracks (and I'm pretty pleased to see Adria is NOT on the list) but this is ridiculous. We're talking a 3 day camel ride in each direction for the truck for most of these rounds which is just completely prohibitive in terms of fuel and wages.

I'm sure GT4 will add the Spa 24 hrs (either as a round or as a support) to this (Aug 1st?) which might do something to help the shape of the calender, but given both GT3 and GT4 are heavily dependent on amateurs to pay the way, what kind of idiot came up with the idea of having 3 rounds in May and then a 3 month mid-championship break???

Can just see the boss letting me take 3 Fridays off out of 4!!!! NOT and that's assuming you don't need to be there Thursday, or in the case of Zolder last year, Wednesday!

2 May Silverstone
16 May Brno
30 May Paul Ricard
20 June Oschersleben
12 September Circuito Algarve
3 October Budapest*

I think it's fair to say that (assuming we manage to find the 50bhp that is mysteriously missing from our grunter) our GT4 probably won't be seen much in Europe in 2010... here's hoping the British GT calender is a little more sensible.

Rant over

Rick

[Dauer 962]

I would not argue about a calendar which isn’t even there.

Even with the GT1/2/3 calendar there will be a change of the Paul Ricard and Brno date.

There will be some significant changes in GT4 racing next year, I suppose this will address the calendar also.

[johntt]

The whole FIA GT combine is completely silly.

Is the plan for GT2 cars to have 2x 1 Hour races per meeting as well?

[Sassy1]

Looking at all the m/sport calendars released/pencilled in to date it is going to be no fun for spectators too.

With big breaks in the middle of all of them for the other sporting events happening ie footie it's going to be tough choices for people as to what to go to watch.

Losing spectators at this time is not helpful for the circuits, or for teams trying to get sponsors if crowd sizes drop.

[cmk]

A gazillion things about the FIA plans and calendars are silly, but the distance from Dover of the majority of GT4 Euro rounds is probably not chief on that list. It is a very Anglocentric perspective and with the GT4 concept not having been wildly popular in the UK, one can understand their reticence in promoting to that country specifically. It has been very successful in Holland, but also has seen favour with central and eastern European drivers from Austria, Russia etc. The venues do seem to help draw on that market...

When you consider the GT3 calendar itself, you can also see a certain amount of sense in it, especially if Spa is included as well. You have GT3 as a headliner or popular 2nd class in GT series in the UK, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy and Iberia, and all but Italy are represented on the calendar, with the addition of Brno and Budapest which will help appeal to the Eastern European drivers that are reasonably prevalent in the Euro GT3 series. Add to that the fact that Brno is one of the greatest tracks in all of Europe alongside the classics...

[RickP:Clio51]

Hate to argue but the majority of teams in European GT4 last year were British (ourselves, RJN, 2 or 3 G50s, 1 or 2 Astons, Lotus) which kinda justifies a small anglocentric opinion and the majority of GT4 cars are situated in Holland currently which is the closest country to the UK so I'm sure they share my outlook a little.

I know the debate given the calender isn't published yet is a little hypothetical but SRO have always marketed GT3 as an "amateur" championship as well as GT4 and it is clear that they have once again decided to go to circuits that are cheap rather than considering it's better to have decent circuits which are reachable which will bring more entries and therefore defray the costs.

Perhaps GT4 won't follow GT3 every week, but if it's not part of the big prestigious meetings how do the SRO justify the big prestigious entry fees? I guess there is an argument that they could place it alongside some of the Brit GT weekends or Dutch GT's but then they virtually stop any chance of teams doing both the local and european championship with the same cars, which will only detract entries from the European so seems pretty unlikely.

Brno is a great circuit yes, but so are Zandvoort, Imola, Monza, Dijon, Jarama, Barcelona and then you've got some pretty reasonable tracks in Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Zolder, Assen, Magny-Cours and they are a whole lot nearer the majority of the teams. BUT they are expensive to hire apparently.

And 3 races (50% of the Championship?) in 4 weeks, yes they are going to potentially move it around slightly to accommodate Monaco GP move etc BUT SOMEONE still thought that originally this was a good calender?? All a bit bizarre really I'm afraid.

When you go to the sponsors and say, well I'm gonna need $XX,XXX per round and I'm going to need 3 payments in MAY alone you can see that they aren't going to be particularly keen if they are drawing it out of cashflow. And given most of the drivers are paying their own way out of their earnings it's not exactly helpful to try and budget for half the season out of 1 months income!! It all smacks of someone REALLY not thinking things through properly... a bit like a few other things mentioned above!

Compare to GT Opens calender (and keep in mind that it has traditionally been a southern European series and caters mostly for Spanish and Italian teams)

April 9-11 - Imola
April 30 - May 2 - Nürburgring
May 21-23 - Portimão
June 25-27 - Spa Francorchamps
July 9-11 - Magny-Cours
September 3-5 - Donington Park (TBC)
October 1-3 - Monza
October 29-31 - Barcelona

Astonishingly they've managed to put together a series with all the races roughly 3-4 weeks apart on decent tracks?

[Adam43]

This is nothing but damaging to the sport.

It is clear that organisers are annoying competitors here. It is also clear that there is little communication in the sport as the best way to raise concerns over the calendar seems to be to bring it up on an internet forum. The last post, which isn't acceptable on 10-10ths, shows that this seems to be turning fans away from the competitors too and no one is coming across well.

Please remember that insults are not tolerated on 10-10ths. Attack the post not the poster.

I agree the calendar is not ideal. A lot of people get this every year, I remember four races happening in one month and I only did eight all year. 'twas annoying.
What is the solution? Surely there is more to do than just whinge on a motorsport forum?

Has the organiser come back with reasons? Or if it is likely to change/improve?

[JAG]

If your a GT4 team, presumably on a small budget (relative to P1/P2 and GT1/GT2 teams), why would you travel across Europe in FIA GT?

Wouldn't it be better to compete in British GT with a high profile program, plus a few attractive international events?

[RickP:Clio51]

I think what we've failed to get across here is that our concerns are for the sport as a whole, we want to see great grids providing great entertainment to large crowds.

From my point of view I see our team and many others that have invested in a new category and then been let down by the organisers. If you define something as an amateur Championship (by which you usually mean there isn't going to be the crowds or the tv coverage to justify sponsor involvement) then you need to cut the cloth of the Championship accordingly and by expecting the teams to travel huge distances past quality circuits to get to ones that are cheap suggests either greed or a very high cost base on behalf of the organisers. Especially when as I highlighted, competitor championships manage to go to decent circuits based at sensible intervals so people can take time off work and budget for their racing across their year.

John, I completely agree with you, the UK will make a lot of sense in 2010 for us (as I mentioned in my opening post) but unfortunately we know the history of 2008 with GT4 in the UK where the organisers changed the rules to allow the Ginetta to run on the top class and then rendered all the other cars uncompetitive causing everyone bar us to abandon the series. Let's hope that they are committed to doing a better job on equalisation in 2010 and I'd love the team to return to race in the UK. The attraction of Europe though is for the sponsors as GT4 get to run their own race rather than be moving chicanes in the midst of the main event which ensures better television.

Splendid Cat: I'm sure you're not the imbecile u come across as so perhaps you'd do us the courtesy of reading the thread properly and coming up with a reasoned argument or crawling back in your hole? We work exceptionally hard to find and maintain our sponsor relationships or to source paying drivers and if we chose to discuss the issues that will affect our business going forward by reflecting their concerns in this high quality forum to which I've enjoyed contributing over the past 10 years as both a professional driver and a team owner its because the guys and girls on here are true enthusiasts and we share a desire to see our sport (Sportscars, not racing, not football) go from strength to strength.

I hope the concerns I raise would be exactly the same as any other GT4 team owner/driver would be considering at this time. We've fired our survey responses to the SRO with our desires for 2010 in GT4 but in the meantime the GT3 calender does give cause to worry I think (and of the 3 GT3 drivers we speak to regularly all 3 of them are looking for other drives now having seen it) and I wonder what other ten-tenthers consider the thinking behind this is from the powers that be and what the solution is going forward?

Cheers
Rick

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by RickP:Clio51

I think what we've failed to get across here is that our concerns are for the sport as a whole, we want to see great grids providing great entertainment to large crowds.

From my point of view I see our team and many others that have invested in a new category and then been let down by the organisers. If you define something as an amateur Championship (by which you usually mean there isn't going to be the crowds or the tv coverage to justify sponsor involvement) then you need to cut the cloth of the Championship accordingly and by expecting the teams to travel huge distances past quality circuits to get to ones that are cheap suggests either greed or a very high cost base on behalf of the organisers. Especially when as I highlighted, competitor championships manage to go to decent circuits based at sensible intervals so people can take time off work and budget for their racing across their year.

John, I completely agree with you, the UK will make a lot of sense in 2010 for us (as I mentioned in my opening post) but unfortunately we know the history of 2008 with GT4 in the UK where the organisers changed the rules to allow the Ginetta to run on the top class and then rendered all the other cars uncompetitive causing everyone bar us to abandon the series. Let's hope that they are committed to doing a better job on equalisation in 2010 and I'd love the team to return to race in the UK. The attraction of Europe though is for the sponsors as GT4 get to run their own race rather than be moving chicanes in the midst of the main event which ensures better television.

Splendid Cat: I'm sure you're not the imbecile u come across as so perhaps you'd do us the courtesy of reading the thread properly and coming up with a reasoned argument or crawling back in your hole? We work exceptionally hard to find and maintain our sponsor relationships or to source paying drivers and if we chose to discuss the issues that will affect our business going forward by reflecting their concerns in this high quality forum to which I've enjoyed contributing over the past 10 years as both a professional driver and a team owner its because the guys and girls on here are true enthusiasts and we share a desire to see our sport (Sportscars, not racing, not football) go from strength to strength.

I hope the concerns I raise would be exactly the same as any other GT4 team owner/driver would be considering at this time. We've fired our survey responses to the SRO with our desires for 2010 in GT4 but in the meantime the GT3 calender does give cause to worry I think (and of the 3 GT3 drivers we speak to regularly all 3 of them are looking for other drives now having seen it) and I wonder what other ten-tenthers consider the thinking behind this is from the powers that be and what the solution is going forward?

Cheers
Rick

You're the poster that posted an article on DSC re: performance balancing imbalances ex SRO. One could have interpreted the SRO's reponse on DSC as saying that the complainant was not sufficently talented, and that other drivers (experiencing the same conditons) fared considerably better.

Perhaps Mr Ratel and the evil sorcerers of the SRO have wreaked their revenge. Although, it's more likely that the poster's personal itinerary was not in the top 500 considerations.

Back to my dirty hole now.

[RickP:Clio51]

Yes, a quality petty response from the SRO wasn't it. My point wasn't about my own or my teams competitiveness, which is irrelevant, it's the desire of the SRO to extract the maximum cash from these Championships by choosing cheap circuits and letting in any cars they see fit regardless of what effect it has on those teams that they heavily encouraged to support their Championship from day 1.

If you sign up for a Championship and ask to run a 911 because you believe that it will be the most effective weapon and you are told "911's wont be allowed to run" then you get a bit upset when they are waved in 12 months later.

Similarly, if you build a car to a set of regulations that state "no aero addendum over that of the road car are allowed" and you see a Maserati arrive at the pre-season test with a great big additional splitter then you are upset. If you are then told "don't worry it won't run in that configuration because clearly they are taking the p*ss" and 5 rounds later, there it is, completely unchanged you are going to be unhappy again that you made an investment on a certain basis and that basis was changed to suit the organisers with no allowance for those who had invested in cars.

The Ginetta was not allowed under the original rules of GT4, and then made a mockery of the British Championship in 2008, now the class is virtually dead despite the number of quality GT4 cars based in the UK. Are these facts related? Yes. If you have the cash to buy an Aston then the chances are despite the downturn you've still got a racing budget. If instead you are a team hoping to find a couple of rental drivers you go for the cheapest option which was the kit car. These guys are those who have been hardest hit in the downturn.

Anyway, I spoke to a couple of GT3 guys yesterday (both of whom have finished top 3 in the Championship in the past couple of years and both of whom have taken one look at the calender and told the SRO NOT to expect them back) and they have cast a new light on the situation. They think that because of the FIA accreditation, there is a need to tow 30+ FIA officials to each round, with the associated salaries and expenses and THIS is what tips the balance on the cashflow to need cheap or free circuits.

So I guess we blame the FIA? Which is always a pleasure!

[Gingers4Justice]

Nice to see the FIA are back to form by destroying another one of it's potentially successful sports car formulas.

SRO really are trying their best to make all 4 levels of GT racing as difficult to enter as possible.

[Tim the Grey]

So why do we need 30 odd extra blazers to take up free luncheon tickets? What do they do that SRO don't?

Oh, and how do I join, please? I wouldn't mind free junkets to races...

[EastonNeston]

Is anyone really surprised that SRO are incapable of orgainsing anything in a sensible and customer focussed way.

It is November and we still don't have a calender for any SRO series, hardly helpful to teams trying to plan their season.

[The359]

GT4 Calendar published, only 1 race in May. It also appears they're moving away from FIA GT1/2/3 support races and rather joining the national GT series.

7-9th May Dijon (France) Super Series FFSA Event
4-5th June Spa (Belgium) Belcar Event
18-20th June Oschersleben (Germany) FIA GT2 Event
27-29th August Nürburgring (Germany) FIA GT1 Event
17-19th September Algarve (Portugal) FIA GT1 Event
15-17th October Donington (Great Britain) British GT Event

It does seem however that most of the teams will be spending their time going back and forth between Belgium and Germany, especially if you slot the Spa 24 Hours into there.

[Fogelhund]

Two full months in the middle of summer without a race.... interesting...

[Steven Humphrey]

And the only British round taking place on a building site with no money?!

[The359]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Two full months in the middle of summer without a race.... interesting...

Spa 24 Hours will be in July, that should be the reason for the gap.

[RickP:Clio51]

Clearly you have to say that this is a fabulous effort from the SRO. They've listened to the concerns that have been raised to them and this is a great result I think for the majority of GT4 teams.
They should be firmly applauded.

Now we just need STG to recover against the Euro, because the way it stands right now racing in Europe is 30% more expensive than last year for a UK team... but as highlighted elsewhere, the Brit GT's looks pretty interesting and if GT4 are properly equalised will make for a great Championship as well.