The COAT - Final - Williams FW14 vs McLaren MP4/4

[crmalcolm]

And so we reach the final - the ultimate COAT will be decided, and any future debate over the greatest F1 car of all time will be redundant, having been confirmed with absolute certainty here.

Anyway, onto the match.

After putting up a valiant effort with a small squad, Lotus were unable to reach the final with their final two entries falling at the semi-final hurdle.

The Lotus 25 lost to the Williams FW14 2-6, whereas the Lotus 72 was comprehensively beaten by the McLaren MP4/4 0-5.


For narratives, both are taken from a single article in https://bleacherreport.com/

The McLaren MP4/4:
Driven by Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost over the course of the 1988 Formula One season, the first Honda-powered McLaren, designed by Steve Nichols and Gordon Murray, secured 15 wins and pole positions in 16 races.
It was behind the wheel of the MP4/4 that Senna delivered arguably the greatest lap in F1 history in qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix, where the Brazilian set a time almost 1.5 seconds faster than his team-mate in the same machinery.
Indeed, the MP4/4 is credited as the car that truly kickstarted one of the most intense, iconic rivalries in sport, as Senna and Prost, as a consequence of McLaren's performance advantage, battled head-to-head for the championship for the first time, with the former ultimately coming out on top.
With a 1.6 litre V6 turbo engine, the RA168E, the car would often produce more than 700 bhp, according to McLaren's official website, which ensured the Woking-based team scored more than three times as many points as runners-up Ferrari in the constructors' standings.
Ferrari's home race, in fact, was the scene of McLaren's only failure in '88 as Prost withdrew with technical problems and Senna collided with Jean Louis Schlesser at Monza's first chicane and retired from the lead just two laps from the chequered flag, ruining the team's hopes of a 100 per cent record.
But the MP4/4, more than any other car before or since 1988, was deserving of that accolade.

Williams FW14B:
Still regarded as the most technologically advanced car in Formula One history, the Williams FW14B powered Nigel Mansell to his only title success in 1992.
In its original form in the 1991 season, the car—designed by Patrick Head and Adrian Newey—proved fast but fragile.
With Mansell and Riccardo Patrese at the wheel, the car secured a total of seven wins but a number of reliability problems, many of which were related to the gearbox, and allowed Ayrton Senna to claim the last of his three world championships.
The end of McLaren's all-conquering partnership with Honda coincided with a number of modifications to the FW14.
A semi-automatic transmission—the first in F1, as Head told Motor Sport magazine—traction control, the controversial active suspension system (developed by none other than current Mercedes technical boss Paddy Lowe), anti-lock brakes and a 3.5 litre Renault V10 engine gave Williams a huge edge. The new engine, according to GrandPrixHistory.org, produced around 30 horsepower more than its rivals.
Mansell, who took a particular liking to the FW14B, broke countless records throughout the year, including for consecutive wins at the start of a season (five), pole positions (14 out of 16) and wins in a season (nine).
The highlight of the campaign arguably came at Silverstone, where Mansell qualified on pole, almost two seconds quicker than second-placed Patrese alone, before taking his fourth British Grand Prix victory.
The title race, if one existed, was done and dusted following the Hungarian GP in mid-August, when there were still five events of the season remaining, and the FW14B finished with 10 victories to its name.
It is true that there were more dominant cars in F1 history from a results perspective—the championship-winning 1996 Williams, for example, won 12 of 16 grands prix—but in terms of outright pace, few come close to the dominance of the 1992 machine.

[chillibowl]

Here is a case of me growing up with both these cars on my bedroom walls.

So a close one but the MP4/4 with that livery and Senna's helmet puts it over.

[Gerard C]

The ultimate COAT will be decided, and any future debate over the greatest F1 car of all time will be redundant, having been confirmed with absolute certainty here. Indeed.

[Adam43]

The MP4/4 is more evocative for me.

But the FW14 was a tour de force. So much so it caused a change in the regulations. In my memory it just so much looked faster than anything else.

[crmalcolm]

Whilst I entirely accept that debates regarding the greatest car, driver and even team will continue in perpetuity - I think a definite conclusion I draw from this is that the current generation of voters in this forum tend to see the '88-'92 period as the 'golden age' of F1 (or gullaldr, or Belle Époque if you prefer).

The GOAT bracket saw Senna, Prost and Schumacher make the final four. The COAT bracket has these two cars in the final.

Formula1.com had this to say about 1990:
'But although the 1990 F1 designer was more limited than his equivalent today by the resources and technologies available to him, he was much less constrained by the regulations, which became more intricate over time to control the speeds of the cars.'
'In 1990 aerodynamicists were just beginning to understand that there was a lot of untapped potential for downforce creation from the underfloor despite the imposition (in 1983) of the flat-floor, which had been regulated in (together with a ban on skirts) to banish ground-effect aerodynamics.'
'the simple, elegant lines of [1990] cars reflecting an attempt to turn the airflow gently around the cockpit and radiators, then accelerating it with the ‘coke bottle’ profile of the bodywork as it narrowed at the rear in order to enhance the flow to the rear wing and over the top of the diffuser. The ‘coke bottle’ remains a standard feature of F1 cars to this day, but the advent of barge boards to help turn the airflow more quickly and accelerate it more aggressively means that the simple elegance of the 1990 cars around the front has been lost.'
'In 1990 the wind tunnel allowed downforce and drag to be measured but couldn’t show how the numbers were derived. CFD (which was then in its infancy and being looked at by Geoff Willis at Leyton House as a research project) would allow a spectacular increase in understanding the mechanisms behind the numbers and how they could be manipulated.'
'by 1990 suspension layouts were becoming subservient to aerodynamic demands but the systems were more basic. Torsion bar springs were replacing coils as a much better packaging prospect. Third dampers to decouple the roll and pitch movements of the car had started to appear, but there were as yet no heave springs (decoupling the vertical forces) or inerters (to even out load variations). Active ride had been tried in the ‘80s but with basic analogue computing had fallen out of favour.'


It seems the ideal mix of technological advancement, with limited understanding, made the cars of this period the 'ideal' F1 car. Will things ever go back - it would require a massive revamp of the regulations to force teams to undo everything they have learnt since 1992.

[S griffin]

The FW14B. The rest had no chance against a car like that, wheareas the rest had no chance against the MP4/4 due to the drivers they had

[Aysedasi]

McLaren - of course.....

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

McLaren - of course.....

Can’t vote for the McLaren as it had the best drivers.

[chunterer]

Very very tough vote this one!!!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Can’t vote for the McLaren as it had the best drivers.

I know......

[S griffin]

There were some lucky people who were around the time the two best drivers of their era were in the two best cars

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Whilst I entirely accept that debates regarding the greatest car, driver and even team will continue in perpetuity - I think a definite conclusion I draw from this is that the current generation of voters in this forum tend to see the '88-'92 period as the 'golden age' of F1 (or gullaldr, or Belle Époque if you prefer).

No need to vote, excel or powerpoint this "result" you can guess the average age of voters in a blink of an eye.

As to having the two best drivers in the same car, its a matter of choice, their choice, and I dont feel being more entitled than Messieurs Senna et Prost to judge any F1 that's why I rely on their professional opinion.

For crmalcolm: on n'attire pas les mouches avec du vinaigre…

Thanks again for those two fantastic threads and all the work and care involved. And more important, we've been allowed to express our opinions freely with no further hard fight, subjectively, objectively and sometimes bad faith manner in my case (Gordini for instance!). Merci encore Monsieur!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Thanks again for those two fantastic threads and all the work and care involved. And more important, we've been allowed to express our opinions freely with no further hard fight, subjectively, objectively and sometimes bad faith manner in my case (Gordini for instance!). Merci encore Monsieur!

Well said indeed!

[chillibowl]

Indeed well said!

Thank you crmalcolm. These have been super fun!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

No need to vote, excel or powerpoint this "result" you can guess the average age of voters in a blink of an eye.

I often voted for vehicles before I was born and after I was a real dedicated fan of the sport

As to having the two best drivers in the same car,

It’s a joke BTW. A reference to how we dismiss drivers because they were in the best car.

its a matter of choice, their choice, and I dont feel being more entitled than Messieurs Senna et Prost to judge any F1 that's why I rely on their professional opinion.

Yes

Thanks again for those two fantastic threads and all the work and care involved. And more important, we've been allowed to express our opinions freely with no further hard fight, subjectively, objectively and sometimes bad faith manner in my case (Gordini for instance!). Merci encore Monsieur!

Woo. It’s been fun to have to chose. Especially when you’ve got to somehow compare cars many decades apart.

[BTCC frog]

I voted for the Williams, for this reason:
'Still regarded as the most technologically advanced car in Formula One history'

My real pick for the COAT would be the Brabham fan car, but unfortunately that didn't make it to the final.

[S griffin]

Just imagine how out of hand F1 technology might have become if the fan car continued

[Gerard C]

Sure, it was ready to make a clean sweep and blow everything in its path. What you call a b, sorry, a fan job!

[S griffin]

The thing is, the others would have no doubt come up with their own version

[Gerard C]

They should have say where aspiration came from …

Cant imagine an Aus GP with twelve of those. How many kangaroos might have been slaughtered? Sh*t happens but should not hit the fans!