Super5000 Series Is Go??

[champcarman]

You can see the "gear levers" clearly in the photo of the steering wheel.

[Ospi]

Damn kids and their paddle shifting and loud music.

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[racer69]

Originally Posted by PS2244

There's no doubt it'll garner the interest of fans at events.

Will it though?

Open-wheelers haven't garnered the interest of fans properly in nearly 40 years in Australia.

Both cars look great, i've been hoping for a series like this my whole life as Formula 5000 was dead before I was born, it's a shame it is turning out like it is.

We obviously need further details on the Super 5000 concept, like what sort of formats will the series run too etc... is there any re-fuelling capabilities on the cars and so on. The Super 5000 version seems to be a lot of expense to go to for a competitor to be part of a 3-sprint race support template that a lot of other VASC support categories run too.

What drivers are both concepts wanting to attract too? It saddens me but I don't really see how this category (both Super5000 and Formula Thunder 5000) fits in to the 2018 CAMS & Supercars Australian motorsport scene...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Apart from the promotion, use of Supercars drivers, the branding and owning the intellectual property / rights to the category.

Repeating things that already been dispelled is ridiculous.

Supercars have not promoted this at all, other than publishing a puff piece from a sponsor who has propped up teams for a long time and is a significant benefactor of the sports.

Supercars drivers drive and test other things often, and this was in no way a Supercars sanctioned event.

The intellectual property comes by re-use of existing Supercar componentry. Does Supercars run a Sports Sedan that runs an old Supercar chassis?

Supercars have reserved the rights to run these things if and when they get up, but the rest is hokum.

[one five five]

I think you're the one flogging the dead horse Mixer, you're one-eyed barrow pushing of the Supercars agenda is admirable though.

Supercars have a connection in Super5000, plainly and simply.

The fact you keep trying to distance Supercars from Super5000, yet acknowledge that Supercars will run the Series if it gets up, is laughable.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Repeating things that already been dispelled is ridiculous.:

Not sure where anything has been dispelled apart from your opinion?

Unless you feel that debating the size and length of a sticker constitutes this?

[Compromised]

If I put my branding on something, no matter the exact dimensions of it, I'd be proud of it and support it openly. Think thats kinda of a principal concept of sponsorship

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Compromised

If I put my branding on something, no matter the exact dimensions of it, I'd be proud of it and support it openly. Think thats kinda of a principal concept of sponsorship

It does not, however, mean that they're the primary driving force behind the class, or that they came up with it specifically to undermine FT5000(frankly, the timing makes the latter effectively impossible - the chances that Supercars could have conceived, tendered, and built an entirely new car in the time since the FT5000 announcement is EXTREMELY slim), as many here have been asserting.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by racer69

Will it though?

Open-wheelers haven't garnered the interest of fans properly in nearly 40 years in Australia.
Both cars look great, i've been hoping for a series like this my whole life as Formula 5000 was dead before I was born, it's a shame it is turning out like it is.

True that open wheelers have not been a big draw since F5000, but I think that is a very good reason for reviving something similar (but safer).
Given crash tested carbon tubs the fatalities and the inherent risk of "Lola limp" should all but disappear.
Believe me anyone who was around in those days is a captive audience and young fans will find the ground shaking awe of an F5000 grid out weighs anything they can experience on a screen.
With the onset of Gen2, which is an advance in terms of relevance, the thing that will be lacking at Supercar meets will be the noise experience. F5000 type racing will bring that back to an even greater level than the current tin top V8s
They also provide the opportunity to have a balanced program which the current (now getting stale) jump or bash and crash trucks or second level more of the same in old supercars do not provide.
Please let's bash the heads of the two sides together, or find a way of blending the two, so that open wheelers can get a new start in Oz
We are at the stage where something new is needed to save Motor Racing from a slow downward spiral as screens take over among young people.

[Alan52]

Open wheel domestic series around the world faded away as a crowd and commercial sponsorship draw from the time in the late 70's (81 in Aus) when live F1 on TV began.Most open wheeler fans can get their quota of racing there and any other open wheeler category has to compete with one that has the best drivers and teams in the world.
There may be a market for these 5000 formulas as a kind of TCM for open wheelers but the meagre interest Lamden had for his series suggests the market is not big and the Supercars version is much more expensive.

[Mixer]

I dunno if 250k to 300k makes it "much" more expensive. Engines will have much more running costs but other than that we don't know too much.

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[racer69]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

True that open wheelers have not been a big draw since F5000, but I think that is a very good reason for reviving something similar (but safer).
Given crash tested carbon tubs the fatalities and the inherent risk of "Lola limp" should all but disappear.
Believe me anyone who was around in those days is a captive audience and young fans will find the ground shaking awe of an F5000 grid out weighs anything they can experience on a screen.

A difference here though is that Formula 5000 was an attraction of their own, they headlined their own Gold Star rounds, their own Rothmans Series and Tasman Series events. While Super 5000 seems to be aimed as a support series and will be viewed by the fans trackside as a gap filler like other supports these days.

I also don't know what drivers it will attract. All the drivers will still be drawn ultimately to the Supercars Championship, so will Super5000 take drivers and budgets away from the Development Series? The Pro ranks of Carrera Cup? Will it be seen as a Supercars Championship feeder?

[Armco Bender]

For a period in the early 1970's F5000 was exciting when you had decent feilds with overseas driver competing.But the cars themselves were desperately unreliable,look at some of the old videos on youtube and you will see often half the feild broke down or trundled round trailling smoke to the finish.
The best thing ever was when F5000 was replaced with Formula Atlantic,better feilds,better drivers from overseas,better reliabity,affordable cars,was all good until the catergory was killed off.
Open wheel racing been pretty much dead downunder since then.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

For a period in the early 1970's F5000 was exciting when you had decent feilds with overseas driver competing.But the cars themselves were desperately unreliable,look at some of the old videos on youtube and you will see often half the feild broke down or trundled round trailling smoke to the finish.

That was not at all uncommon for any form of motorsport at the time, even at the top levels. Even the Indy 500 would often barely have 10 finishers during that era. So that's not exactly a mark against the class. Even Atlantics has reliability issues in the 70s and early 80s(in the States, at least).

[simonracer]

Formula One wasn't much better either, even in 1980 (the final year before F5000 got replaced) there was only one race where 2/3 of the field finished, for the other 13 races less then that amount finished.

[Armco Bender]

Of course back then too you could literally build an F5000 car in your work shop,tow it too the track with the Holden ute and often they were driven by the local service station proprietor or used car salesman so there was interest in watching someone you actually knew drive one of the beasts.
One of the best looking F5000 cars ever made was the NZ built Begg 018 IMHO.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

One of the best looking F5000 cars ever made was the NZ built Begg 018 IMHO.

You mean the one that looked like a McLaren M16 knockoff? (not knocking it - after all, why not copy such a design in that era?)

[Oldtony]

The Begg looked great but I think Mcrae was more effective.
Which brings me to the point that at one stage the Shaky Isles seems to have been the final resting place for a lot of F5000 cars. Being Kiwis of course they didn't get to rest and turned up regularly for the Philip Island meet before the AGP.
Now those were REALLY days of thunder.
Do the still get regular outings Armco?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

You mean the one that looked like a McLaren M16 knockoff? (not knocking it - after all, why not copy such a design in that era?)

It should be no surprise because George Begg worked part time at Mclarens for several season's and always bought a trunk load or more of genuine Mclaren components back with him plus accurate drawing's etc.

In my opinion the last Begg car was probably one of the best off the best F500 ever, but never got a chance to strut its stuff on the world stage.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

In my opinion the last Begg car was probably one of the best off the best F500 ever, but never got a chance to strut its stuff on the world stage.

Similar story with the Elfin MR9, which I think was the only ground effect F5000 built (although happy to be corrected) - was built a bit late to really get sorted and show what it could do.

[Armco Bender]

Never for get Jim Murdoch in the Begg 018's first NZGP chasing down Warwick Browns Lola in the wet.That was a massive effort considering Jim's lack of experience in F5000.


http://www.themotorhood.com/themotor...ndown-showdown

Do the still get regular outings Armco?

http://f5000.co.nz/?id=1

[Axeman444]

Just putting it out there, if this program gets up and running, a Super5000/TCM combined meeting would have the looks of an old school race meeting, with all the modern bits hidden away underneath, pleasing both sedan and open wheeler fans. Just my 2c Warbo if you are reading...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

The best thing ever was when F5000 was replaced with Formula Atlantic,better feilds,better drivers from overseas,better reliabity,affordable cars,was all good until the catergory was killed off.

Maybe in New Zealand, but in Australia Fomula Atlantic/Pacific/Mondial never reached the heights that F5000 had, and outside the AGP the fields were no bigger or better and the formula struggled as much as F5000 had in it's latter days in Australia.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by chavez

I know it has been pointed out but for goodness sake, there is a Supercars logo on the airbox cover.

I can be as stubborn as the next person, but to say there are no Supercar logos on the car is frankly beyond belief.

It's quite useful that we should soon discover that the world is actually flat and so it will help when building a circuit on which they can race.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It's quite useful that we should soon discover that the world is actually flat and so it will help when building a circuit on which they can race.

But that could be a little boring with a flat race track. Elevation change often makes things more interesting...