[Official] Round 17: Indian Grand Prix

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by bella

it's all very awkward. because you know, there were never compulsory purchase orders at any point in the history of any of the european circuits. and none of them were ever underpaid for their land, were they?! beware the stone throwing when you don't know what your house is made of.

we already had all this discussion with bahrain though. it's pretty tired, and not really relevant to what's going on on the circuit and in the garages.

Good point, well made and my response to that would be that it just shouldn't be done in this day and age. Surely we're past that sort of tactics...

And I'd say it is entirely relevant to the Grand Prix, as we're discussing the circuit.

From a racing point of view, the track's rubbish. Again, the cars look like ants with the massively wide track and huge, open spaces. Again, there's a long straight leading in to a tight hairpin. Again, there's a massive granstand on the pit straight. Again, there's run off areas that stretch as far as the eye can see. Again, there's no character to it - there's absolutely nothing pretty about it. There's barely a tree in sight.

If someone could please tell me how you can tell that circuit is in India, what makes that circuit Indian or, indeed, what makes it any different from Sepang or China, I'd love to hear it because at the moment I can't tell.

It feels like the Formula One World Championship is visiting the same circuit about 8 times a season, because so many of them are so similar.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Finger Boy on pole.

As usually.

[Steve Carter]

 It feels like the Formula One World Championship is visiting the same circuit about 8 times a season, because so many of them are so similar

Agreed Gingers its just another Tilke circuit

[Carsandmotorracing]

You know guys, there's this thing called YouTube, it has a lot of classic races onthere, instead of being negative, go watch them.

[Marbot]

Anyone else think that those STR's are really quite good cars now?

[bella]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Good point, well made and my response to that would be that it just shouldn't be done in this day and age. Surely we're past that sort of tactics...

.....

If someone could please tell me how you can tell that circuit is in India, what makes that circuit Indian or, indeed, what makes it any different from Sepang or China, I'd love to hear it because at the moment I can't tell.

this day and age... in the west and in our culture. if you take the things we did at that stage of cultural and industrial development they were often similar. the same sort of cruel treatment and neglect of the poor, the same sacrifices by those without a voice. we're still doing it. it'll take a lot more than a grand prix to fix it.

i'm not saying it's right but that's how it is. what is a shame is that the circuit seems to have been constructed to typical local standards of construction and lack of finishing. that's fine on factory developments and residential properties but in venues for multi million pound events you're using to showcase the fact the country can and will compete with the west... i'm not trying to talk down what the locals have achieved in getting the place designed and built in the first place (and on time! very impressive) but... well,if it was silverstone bernie would have spat his dummy to every media organisation he coud find.

which leads into the answer to your final point. the 'stairway to heaven' makes it india

edit: on another note i'm glad to hear those in sick bay are feeling a little better. sounds really unpleasant.

[JeremySmith]

Unfourtunaly I missed the qualifying session..I think the circuit looks very good though, is that the impression you guys have?

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Good point, well made and my response to that would be that it just shouldn't be done in this day and age. Surely we're past that sort of tactics...

And I'd say it is entirely relevant to the Grand Prix, as we're discussing the circuit.

From a racing point of view, the track's rubbish. Again, the cars look like ants with the massively wide track and huge, open spaces. Again, there's a long straight leading in to a tight hairpin. Again, there's a massive granstand on the pit straight. Again, there's run off areas that stretch as far as the eye can see. Again, there's no character to it - there's absolutely nothing pretty about it. There's barely a tree in sight.

If someone could please tell me how you can tell that circuit is in India, what makes that circuit Indian or, indeed, what makes it any different from Sepang or China, I'd love to hear it because at the moment I can't tell.

It feels like the Formula One World Championship is visiting the same circuit about 8 times a season, because so many of them are so similar.

I pretty much take the complete opposite view; I think the track is fantastic. I watched both the first and third practice sessions, and watching the onboards, it looks incredibly challenging in places(needing to really get your line right, along with just the right amount of throttle/brake), but would be a track I'd absolutely love to race on. Plenty of opportunities for making overtaking maneuvers; lots of wide spaces in entry and exits of corners. Long straight that will allow cars to show their drag differences; great place for DRS too. Circuit has elevation, which the drivers like. Vettel said today after getting pole, "I'm extremely happy and it's good to be here. It will be a very interesting race on a challenging circuit.
You have to really make sure you stay on the line and the circuit here is not forgiving mistakes. It's not easy but I enjoy what I do and I was excited when I came here."

As a racer, it's an awesome track.

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

I pretty much take the complete opposite view; I think the track is fantastic. I watched both the first and third practice sessions, and watching the onboards, it looks incredibly challenging in places(needing to really get your line right, along with just the right amount of throttle/brake), but would be a track I'd absolutely love to race on. Plenty of opportunities for making overtaking maneuvers; lots of wide spaces in entry and exits of corners. Long straight that will allow cars to show their drag differences; great place for DRS too. Circuit has elevation, which the drivers like. Vettel said today after getting pole, "I'm extremely happy and it's good to be here. It will be a very interesting race on a challenging circuit.
You have to really make sure you stay on the line and the circuit here is not forgiving mistakes. It's not easy but I enjoy what I do and I was excited when I came here."

As a racer, it's an awesome tracuk.

As a spectator its like staring at a magic eye poster whilst off your face on LSD! I'll reserve judgement of the circuit until I've watched a bit more,

[strider]

As a circuit I think it's pretty good and that we might get to see an interesting race tomorrow. It's perhaps a shame that Pirelli didn't bring the same tyres as in Korea, but they based their decision on a previous test at the circuit when the surface was different.

Brundle tweeted that 17 of the 24 drivers are not starting in the positions in which they qualified, which must be pretty unique.

My beef is with the health and hygiene issues obviously, the chaotic and dangerous traffic situation and the conditions where you see people squatting down to defecate on the side of the road from the airport. You don't get that at Silverstone, Bernie!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bravo

Anything been said about Massa's fluttery front wing?

Rumour has it that Webber's front wing from Monza was never returned to Red Bull, and suggestion is it might have reached Maranello.

[Purist]

I think one of the Force Indias also had a very fluttery front wing. I certainly didn't think the braking zone was that rough from that clip I saw, so I'm wondering.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

From a racing point of view, the track's rubbish. Again, the cars look like ants with the massively wide track and huge, open spaces. Again, there's a long straight leading in to a tight hairpin. Again, there's a massive granstand on the pit straight. Again, there's run off areas that stretch as far as the eye can see. Again, there's no character to it - there's absolutely nothing pretty about it. There's barely a tree in sight.

If someone could please tell me how you can tell that circuit is in India, what makes that circuit Indian or, indeed, what makes it any different from Sepang or China, I'd love to hear it because at the moment I can't tell.

It feels like the Formula One World Championship is visiting the same circuit about 8 times a season, because so many of them are so similar.

Great points.
Is it just me?
I watched the qualifying and practice sessions, and whilst watching the aerial overview of the track from a helicopter, the whole venue looked like a roller coaster in the middle of the desert.
It's all well and good the drivers and commentators saying about elevation changes and challenges, but it's been manufactured. The landscape around the track is as flat as a pancake!!
I think of Spa, Nurburgring, Mugello, Brands Hatch, Imola, to a degree, Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, Road America and undoubtedly others that escape me, where the road follows the natural contours of the land.
Malaysia is a wonderful facility and it's architecture fits in to the aesthetics of the nation, but I have to agree with J Stewart with his comments on Tilke's wikipedia entry,

"Former driver and team owner Sir Jackie Stewart was critical of Tilke in a 2011 piece in The Daily Telegraph, blaming his designs for the lack of overtaking and excitement at many Formula One races, calling them "are largely carbon copies of each other". Stewart, while praising the vast improvement the designs have brought to the sport's safety as well as "bringing fantastic amenities and luxuries to the sport", argued that the tracks have "gone too far the other way" in terms of safety. His primary complaint was that the large tarmac run-off areas fail to "penalise mistakes"; he cited the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, where Mark Webber was unable to pass Fernando Alonso, despite the latter running wide on four occasions, because the track's run-off areas did not impede him. Stewart suggested that the run-offs be made of a substance that slowed the cars down and thus punished drivers' mistakes.[2] Webber echoed Stewart's views, stating that he was "spot on"".

I suppose Tilke follows the German rationale in that everything they design is efficient, works well and is reliable. But I can't remember anything passionate about German products.
Whilst that process might be wonderful regarding tools, white goods and everyday cars, it doesn't exactly inspire anybody...

[strider]

Originally Posted by bravo

Anything been said about Massa's fluttery front wing?

Interesting fact. It was replaced, but then damaged when he had his accident, so.. "The Massa front wing saga might not be over, for after his qualy crash he has to revert to the 'flutter' wing he had abandoned..."

[strider]

More on the above: http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/10/29/m...-not-over-yet/

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by strider

More on the above: http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/10/29/m...-not-over-yet/

Veeeeeery interesting.

And not unexpectedly, Massa is whingeing about the kerb. Needs to understand that kerbs are not a part of the track. Drive on the track, and there won't be a problem. From what I saw of qualifying, Massa was doing more deliberate corner-cutting than anyone else.

PS. This isn't intended to pick on Massa in particular. Over the years many drivers have complained about kerbs or other trackside obstacles after they have damaged their cars on them. Remember the tyre bundles they used one year at Monza? Horror! Horror! Moaning drivers R, L & C. I thought they were a good idea; they just needed tethering so they didn't roll onto the track after being hit. The drivers would soon have learnt not to hit them.

[Adam43]

Isn't the point to drive around them?
If a kerb is useable, use it, if it isn't, don't. Presumably you are good enough to do that if in F1?

For me it is a very good kerb.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Isn't the point to drive around them?
If a kerb is useable, use it, if it isn't, don't. Presumably you are good enough to do that if in F1?

For me it is a very good kerb.

Felipe was way over that kerb, I don't think that any race car would escape that treatment..

[Adam43]

If hadn't broken the suspension then it would have been slow. That is the point of it.

Maybe the visibility is poor in the mirrors and forward, but that is the compromise.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by Felipe Massa

I didn’t take the kerb so strongly, I took a little bit of kerb, and my suspension didn’t survive.

Ooook then. I wonder what taking a lot of kerb would look like? Lucky you didn't do that hey?

[Purist]

I think there are some shots of Michael Andretti and others taking "a lot" of curb at Surfers Paradise back in the first few years of that event.

[JeremySmith]

I agree Adam as much as I have warmed to him..

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

I think there are some shots of Michael Andretti and others taking "a lot" of curb at Surfers Paradise back in the first few years of that event.

Sorry but Michael Andretti's time in a F1 car was a disaster..

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I agree Adam as much as I have warmed to him..

I'm there too.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I'm there too.

It's a cruel world unfortunately..