[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[Alfisti]

#HARD is a profitable business. All business owners should be aiming for and hopefully achieving that. They do provide one of, if not the, cheapest way for a driver to get into BTCC. With Creesy being the most recent example of a driver getting into the BTCC and then managing the move to a bigger team.

Not everybody can win. That never stopped Gian Carlo Minardi in F1. The team was a firm favourite of many, including me. Heck, I once spent a weekend with them turning down the opportunity to spend it with a certain other Italian outfit - probably one of the most enjoyable weekends of my life. Plastic chairs, cheap wine and oily greasy hands! Minardi, like #HARD, have provided that first step into the series for many a driver. A certain high profile highly successful Spaniard springs to mind

Little teams, with little budgets have their role in all forms of sport.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

#HARD is a profitable business. All business owners should be aiming for and hopefully achieving that. They do provide one of, if not the, cheapest way for a driver to get into BTCC. With Creesy being the most recent example of a driver getting into the BTCC and then managing the move to a bigger team.

That's true. Goff, Hill, Epps etc.

But conversely, as we've seen this year, whether it's a car fault or down to the driver, they seem to be accountable for about half the safety cars we get.

Perhaps they need to make their seats a little less cheap and put some of that money into the CUPRAs...

[medius]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Little teams, with little budgets have their role in all forms of sport.

I don't think anyone disputes that, I believe the thing thats gets on the wicks of many people is the team and supporters constantly and consistently over promising and under delivering year on year. Its galling to read PR fluff about them trying to play both the roles of big players and small minnows punching above their weight simultaneously. #gamechanger is now a yearly meme which intended to be about them shaking up the establishment at the front of the grid but now means their lineup and stickers on the cars.

Massive expansion plans and scholarships paying cash money for VW Cup drives and paying some drivers is juxtaposed by sending cars onto tracks fitted with certain parts almost double the lifespan logged, to such a degree that two former drivers (one a driver coach with a Jr team) refuse to work with the team on future projects. Jake Hill has been vocal about life behind the garage shutters.

The cult that has emerged since they joined has been staggering in the NGTC years with very little to justify it.

[porsche962fan]

take Team Parker by comparison, little to no fuzz on social media just go out and do the job
and occassionly get podiums with lucky reverse grids

or Excelr8 for small team they seam much more professional in purusuing results compared to HARD


if Lord Gow has the chance he wiill surelly take away some TBL from HARD

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

if Lord Gow has the chance he wiill surelly take away some TBL from HARD

Why?

[medius]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Why?

Indeed the fan backlash alone would be insufferable the only way the squad won't field a full compliment of entries would be:

Force majeur (injury/lack of parts etc)
Rule change
Selling the TBL

It's too lucrative for them not to put someone...anyone in the car every opportunity while they are allowed to. It makes money when the driver is paying more than its costs to do it. But that's true of every virtually all 3 TBLteams.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Why?

they have 4, he wants a smaller grid anyway and HARD are the most farcical team on the grid so far so best remove from them

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they have 4, he wants a smaller grid anyway and HARD are the most farcical team on the grid so far so best remove from them

They need to realise putting their resources into 2 cars is going to work a lot better than stretching them over 3 or 4.

[touringlegend]

If anything Hard may sell the 2 of them, I believe there is the demand for them from other existing or hopeful teams.

That would also help fund the builds of the car.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they have 4, he wants a smaller grid anyway and HARD are the most farcical team on the grid so far so best remove from them

Define farcical, if you can. HARD have done nothing even remotely deserving of have TBLs taken away, if they choose to sell them that's down to them. The grid would look very different without their involvement over the years, not taking anything away from any of their obvious talent but would the likes of Hill, Smiley and Goff made the step up without Tony? Also he's got some very loyal sponsors so they must be happy, RCIB have been with him since his Porsche days and obviously have expanded to other teams as well, say what you like about the results but you obviously don't understand the business side of it.

[Pdh]

Take away everyone’s personal opinions on how good or bad Team Hard are next year they will have no excuses and it will be the same for Jack Goff, brand new cars so they have to be in the top 15 consistently in qualifying and the races, they will have to matching what the fords and Hyundai’s have been doing this year if not then people can start moaning more about them

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Define farcical, if you can. HARD have done nothing even remotely deserving of have TBLs taken away, if they choose to sell them that's down to them. The grid would look very different without their involvement over the years, not taking anything away from any of their obvious talent but would the likes of Hill, Smiley and Goff made the step up without Tony? Also he's got some very loyal sponsors so they must be happy, RCIB have been with him since his Porsche days and obviously have expanded to other teams as well, say what you like about the results but you obviously don't understand the business side of it.

I agree. The fact they are still here shows they are doing something right. And them winning at Silverstone last year due to them rolling the dice shows they can beat the odds

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Define farcical, if you can. HARD have done nothing even remotely deserving of have TBLs taken away, if they choose to sell them that's down to them. The grid would look very different without their involvement over the years, not taking anything away from any of their obvious talent but would the likes of Hill, Smiley and Goff made the step up without Tony? Also he's got some very loyal sponsors so they must be happy, RCIB have been with him since his Porsche days and obviously have expanded to other teams as well, say what you like about the results but you obviously don't understand the business side of it.

did anyone miss those 2 cars at Knockhill ?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

did anyone miss those 2 cars at Knockhill ?

Yes. Next question.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

did anyone miss those 2 cars at Knockhill ?

I'd rather see 27 cars instead of 25 but I'd swap two HARD cars with PMR for example.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I'd rather see 27 cars instead of 25 but I'd swap two HARD cars with PMR for example.

I rather see fewer cars specially cars less prone being safety car magnets

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I'd rather see 27 cars instead of 25 but I'd swap two HARD cars with PMR for example.

But in a very unique year when an established and successful works BMW driver, and a manufacturer backed team have both chosen to not take part, HARD are still there with all 4 cars. Appreciate they get a lot of bad press and that everyone has their own opinion but surely it would have been easy for them to sit back and say 'Yea, we can't do this, we'll sell 2 TBLs instead.'

[S griffin]

I’d rather concentrate more on the close racing. It’s not HARD’s fault we are missing two former champions, plus a returning race winner due to circumstances. They themselves had to resort bringing Brown in to help pay their bills. So they have done well to get to the grid

[Matt K]

Without doubt it's good the BTCC grid stands at healthy numbers and teams such as HARD contribute to that and maybe make the whole field more interesting. Unless such teams make up 75% of the grid, I'm fine with them being perennial backmarkers.
I'd be happier though if they provided opportunities for young, excting talents who could be stars of the future. Hamilton, Brown, Boardley are hardly prospective, excting talents.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

If anything Hard may sell the 2 of them, I believe there is the demand for them from other existing or hopeful teams.

That would also help fund the builds of the car.

Selling the TBLs could well be a viable way of paying for the 2 new cars - it is well known that a number of teams have been looking for another TBL (Dynamics and PMR for example). Along with a slight price rise for being in brand new machinery and could we see HARD genuinely making some sustainable forward moves?

[AnnoyedMoose]

At the end of the day anyone who wants to put the work in to raise the budget can race. Maybe the "young, exciting" talent should be doing more in that regard just like the others had to to get there?

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

At the end of the day anyone who wants to put the work in to raise the budget can race. Maybe the "young, exciting" talent should be doing more in that regard just like the others had to to get there?

Exactly. At the end of the day whoever is on the grid deserves to be there. Go on Facebook and the usual names always crop up who deserve a drive and 'should be given a seat'. Incidentally this is why I come on here, you can have a decent discussion without everyone b*tching that Rob Austin is still not back.

[Alfisti]

On here we (maybe just me?) love a BTCC grid minus Knob Austin. Praise the Lord!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by antnee

Selling the TBLs could well be a viable way of paying for the 2 new cars - it is well known that a number of teams have been looking for another TBL (Dynamics and PMR for example). Along with a slight price rise for being in brand new machinery and could we see HARD genuinely making some sustainable forward moves?

I think one of the reasons Tony can offer the seats at lower cost than others is the number of bodies per car ratio is lower than some teams. There is a balancing act, and clearly #HARD are able to attract drivers - so to my mind the business model is sound.

Would it work better if they ran two cars at £600K per seat? I suspect only TG can begin to answer that one.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

On here we (maybe just me?) love a BTCC grid minus Knob Austin. Praise the Lord!

He's a good guy, and even if you think so, it's a bit childish to call him that literally every time?