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Old 7 Mar 2016, 06:46 (Ref:3620794)   #46
peckstar
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
See it's so simple, why couldn't the average punter 5 beers deep at home work that out???
Look i agree that they messed up the start according to the rules. I said that in the clipsal thread at the time and as soon as it started to my son. They need to go over this procedure and get this right next time. Naughty them.

But it was clear to all that the race had started under safety car. just some teams wanted to argue about it and others dealt with it

But that was the only issue.

140 litres in is the rules, everyone knew it, was well explained, some teams dealt with it better than others. Should we have that rule, Would prefer not to, but it has a purpose (although is the purpose still relevant (needs investigation)) But to have some halfarsed variations that may or may not affect the race is not the answer. That just makes things worse.

It was right to start the race under SC (it sucks, but it was right), it was right to call it out again when they did, it was right to have a red flag, it was right to re-start when they did. No-one likes timed finishes, but they are a necessary evil. They got the call right in my opinion with SVG, but im 60:40 on it. (incidents like that are always grey)

Did i mention that triple 8 messed up and LDM showed they understood the rules better (the richman and the pauper)
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 07:03 (Ref:3620798)   #47
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After watching the race (recorded, had a prior engagement), mulling it over for 24 hours, and reading a lot of comments and articles, I think everything was probably handled as well as it could be.
The only thing that needs to change, in my very humble opinion, is the time certain finish.
Why not start EVERY race with at least an hour extra at the end of the expected finish? The production team are more than capable of filling hours upon hours over the weekend with waffle, so why not build in a buffer around the most important part of the weekend?
Ratings blah blah, any business person knows that repeat business if the best business. Keep the customers happy and they'll come back for more. Even if it hurts you a little in the short term.
If that race hadn't been time certain, all other arguments, apart from maybe SVG v JC, would never have been brought up.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 07:18 (Ref:3620803)   #48
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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After watching the race (recorded, had a prior engagement), mulling it over for 24 hours, and reading a lot of comments and articles, I think everything was probably handled as well as it could be.
The only thing that needs to change, in my very humble opinion, is the time certain finish.
Why not start EVERY race with at least an hour extra at the end of the expected finish? The production team are more than capable of filling hours upon hours over the weekend with waffle, so why not build in a buffer around the most important part of the weekend?
Ratings blah blah, any business person knows that repeat business if the best business. Keep the customers happy and they'll come back for more. Even if it hurts you a little in the short term.
If that race hadn't been time certain, all other arguments, apart from maybe SVG v JC, would never have been brought up.
I'm with you - I think that they've got far, far too cute with the gap between estimated finish time in dry conditions and the time certain finish time. It should be at least half an hour but an hour as you suggest wouldn't go astray. They've made it worse by starting races later which puts more pressure in the telecaster before their evening news.

If time-certain didn't come into play, the rest of the "issues" would have been non-issues. Mind you, I'm still not a fan of the whole compulsory fuel amount.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 07:53 (Ref:3620815)   #49
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Why not start EVERY race with at least an hour extra at the end of the expected finish? The production team are more than capable of filling hours upon hours over the weekend with waffle, so why not build in a buffer around the most important part of the weekend?
Ratings blah blah, any business person knows that repeat business if the best business. Keep the customers happy and they'll come back for more. Even if it hurts you a little in the short term.
It's a rare occurence that something like yesterday happens. The ratings are (it would seem) better if you run the races as close to 6pm as possible (although i don't know if that works as well with the current TV deal, given that neither network has a 6pm news service)
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 10:42 (Ref:3629812)   #50
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Race control throws a yellow flag for a broken mirror on the track but doesn't throw the yellow for multiple cars parked at the end of a 200 kmh straight with oil on the track.

So is a finish under green flag conditions is more important than safety?
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 11:46 (Ref:3629836)   #51
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ignoring the consequence that an SC at that stage of the race may have affected the final outcome for a minute, certainly that mess of stranded cars and oil at the hairpin should've been cleaned up.
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 13:36 (Ref:3629859)   #52
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leothedrummer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Agree that it was ugly, but do we not need to leave some responsibility to the drivers and their ability to behave in a safe manner when the conditions call for it? Perhaps some of the comments from qualifying (differing closing speeds) and the second safety car period (cars circulating at race pace under FCY) need to be addressed, with harsh penalties for people not driving to the flag conditions. Maybe an F1 style time delta, or speed limit in yellow sections?

I believe it's always better to avoid a safety car where possible, but there are still areas that could be improved in the process. On the other hand, I watched and Indycar race today where a safety car was deployed for a car brushing the wall so lightly that it suffered no damage at all, which then also put the car that brought the caution out in a potentially advantageous position, as it was the only one that pitted under that yellow! And that's not to speak of the NASCAR nonsense, with safety cars being called for pieces of paper on the track, etc. That's not the direction we want to be heading in.....
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 15:14 (Ref:3629903)   #53
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Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Very pleased with the decision to keep the race green despite the cars at the hairpin and Blanchard burying himself off turn 6. These drivers are all adults, and double waved yellows and a debris flag, plus radio comms, should be more than enough for them to slow down adequately in the areas of danger.

The whole business of running quali lap speed under safety car needs to be looked at, however.
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 17:13 (Ref:3629931)   #54
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Cars racing at Warp Speed past the pace car at a tight and narrow track like Symmonds Plains is rather frightening.

Spoke to Aaron Noonan in the recent past and what we talked about was the introduction of the F1's Virtual Safety Car.
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 20:38 (Ref:3629999)   #55
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Spoke to Aaron Noonan in the recent past and what we talked about was the introduction of the F1's Virtual Safety Car.
That would mean the cars wouldn't get stacked up behind the safety car and would ruin the 'spectacle' of the finish at places like Bathurst

Not sure the V8SC gods would be in favour of that
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Old 3 Apr 2016, 22:23 (Ref:3630028)   #56
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Cars racing at Warp Speed past the pace car at a tight and narrow track like Symmonds Plains is rather frightening.

Spoke to Aaron Noonan in the recent past and what we talked about was the introduction of the F1's Virtual Safety Car.
We could just suggest to the drivers that they obey the yellow flag... If they do that properly, then no SC is actually needed.
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Old 4 Apr 2016, 00:08 (Ref:3630046)   #57
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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We could just suggest to the drivers that they obey the yellow flag... If they do that properly, then no SC is actually needed.
Time to turn a red while they learn what a yellow means

Definitely need something like Code 60 until the SC takes charge
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Old 4 Apr 2016, 12:39 (Ref:3630215)   #58
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Definitely need something like Code 60
Used it for the first time this week-end at Silverstone. I've always been sceptical but it works extremely well. A couple of minor issues as we got used to it, but a very effective tool. I'm a convert.

Although I'd still rather it wasn't necessary. Couple it with zero tolerance of yellow flag infringements and a compulsory lecture to the driver as to why they need to obey the flags, maybe in time we could get back to not needing to neutralise the race. But I suspect that horse has long since bolted.
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Old 4 Apr 2016, 12:45 (Ref:3630219)   #59
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You've got to take the drivers point of view into account as well though, imagine looking through a letter box (helmet) with cars all around you, flags that are often a long way away not always the easiest thing in the world to see (or think about)
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Old 4 Apr 2016, 21:24 (Ref:3630363)   #60
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Couple it with zero tolerance of yellow flag infringements and a compulsory lecture to the driver as to why they need to obey the flags, maybe in time we could get back to not needing to neutralise the race. But I suspect that horse has long since bolted.
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You've got to take the drivers point of view into account as well though, imagine looking through a letter box (helmet) with cars all around you, flags that are often a long way away not always the easiest thing in the world to see (or think about)
Both fair points and often in this situation, it is a matter of perception. For the driver, the requirement is to slow. Drivers have told me that they slowed from a race speed of 200 down to a yellow flag speed of 160 through the designated zone and from the driver's point of view that is a big slow down, the car is fully under control and there's plenty of time to deal with anything. From the point of view of the corner workers though, that 160 probably looks like either no slow down or way too much pace.

That's why code 60 may be a better answer, it takes away the different perceptions, has a quantifiable speed and both the drivers and corner workers know exactly what is expected and what is going to happen as cars go through the yellow flag zone.
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