red v blue, Ford v Holden ... so old hat !!

[cavvy]

Bunch of yesterday men says the latest spin from the black wiggle !!!!

He's got research to prove it, so it must be right.

Got to love the guy. Where to next Tony, plan B?

Lots of 'out of touch' people post on this forum.

[GTRMagic]

When are we moving back to Super Touring, or indeed a locally tuned version of S2000?

[stoned pony]

To what are you referring so cryptically, Cavvy?

[MPA]

I'm lost.

Can we have a link?

[cavvy]

Sorry lads, a link ... wasdat?

I saw it in Yahoo news, reminded me of a quicker one from Murali: chucked in & spinning !!

Maybe a literate type can get the link..

[MPA]

This what you're talking about?




V8 Supercars boss Tony Cochrane says the Holden-Ford battle - perhaps Australia's most entrenched sporting rivalry - is less relevant to the sport than ever before.

With Ford scaling back its financial commitment to V8 racing earlier this month and rumours Holden may also cost-cut as both companies reel from the economic downturn and its effect on big car sales, Cochrane said the sport had effectively ensured its future regardless of manufacturer belt-tightening.

He said research showed the traditional Holden-Ford rivalry wasn't as intense among V8 fans, who were tending now to follow specific drivers and teams rather than a manufacturer.

"Red versus blue - if you look on our fan research base - has been dropping for quite some time," Cochrane said.

"It's still there, it's still a fairly important branding message for the two manufacturers.

"But if you walk around an event, the majority of people are wearing team merchandise. They're supporting Dick Johnson Racing, or HRT (Holden Racing Team), or Triple Eight (Team Vodafone).

"There are not than many people these days wearing Holden merchandise, or Ford merchandise per se."

The once impregnable red-blue divide has become blurred in recent years with several high-profile driver defections.

Craig Lowndes has gone from Holden to Ford, Russell Ingall crossed from Holden to Ford then back to Holden, and Steven Richards went from Holden to Ford.

But the strength fans' bonds to a manufacturer - in this case Ford - may face its sternest test next year.

Lowndes' Team Vodafone - the highest profile victim of the Ford sponsorship cuts - is considering the extraordinary step of not calling its cars Fords next year even though they will run Falcons.

Cochrane said manufacturer cost-cutting would not harm the sport, which has now become a big brand magnet for companies not necessarily involved in the automotive industry.

Telstra, Vodafone and Microsoft are among the big companies who are heavily invested in V8 sponsorship.

"This category 12 years ago, 65 to 70 per cent of its total income came from the two manufacturers," he said.

"Today I'd say that figure is 15 per cent but I'm probably being very generous.

"As a sport we run at around $200 million between V8 Supercars, our events and our teams.

"The other day Ford announce $2 million in cuts. As a percentage, that's not very much."

Cochrane said while adding a third manufacturer like Toyota to the sport was a nice-to-have, it was not an urgent priority.

"What we've done very effectively over the last 12 years is take our reliance off manufacturers.

"Having a third manufacturer is not stamped urgent because of that.

"It would be great to have a third or fourth manufacturer. But we're not out there knocking down doors saying if we can find one we'll be out of business."

[Uncle Cranker]

Le noir agite might take a different view of things were Subaru & Mitsubishi to come battering down his door with pleadings of 'please let us compete in your amazingly successful série superbe de voiture du vé huit'.

Or....imagine if Renault were to join the series, it would Jaune vs Bleu vs Rouge !


Red vs Blue: old hat, less relevant; what a Pot de merde

[PhaseIII]

'Touche' mon oncle...

[fomoco]

I think I might retire and become a spin doctor on motorsport in Australia.

Paid to put a spin into every turn.

Priceless

[Gaz170]

Sound like he's softening the fans up for the entry of other manufacturers.

PR bull**** at its best.

[SSbaby]

He said the sports longetivity is assured. He also said the manufacturers only fund the category to the tune of 15% at best.

These statements alone suggest V8SC is still going OK and its dependency on manufacturer support has dropped significantly. It also suggests corporations are getting behind the sport.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

He said the sports longetivity is assured. He also said the manufacturers only fund the category to the tune of 15% at best.

These statements alone suggest V8SC is still going OK and its dependency on manufacturer support has dropped significantly. It also suggests corporations are getting behind the sport.

I knew someone would believe it, even quoting Tonyspeak numbers as gospel

[Silver GT]

How the **** does this ********** keep hi job......he must be blowing all the team principals.....surely

If he got his head out of his arse and walked all the way around the track rather than PIT lane and the corporate area he might get a better idea of the real supporters. And maybe if he opened his eyes while walking around a shopping centre he would see how many people wear Ford or Holden Gear.

He is such a knob.

[Bimmerhead]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

Sound like he's softening the fans up for the entry of other manufacturers.

Tend to agree with you. Whatever you think of the guy, he knows how to put on a show and also how to use the media.

Then again he might be just trying to reassure everyone that Ford taking some lollies away does not signal that the end is near. If that's the case then it'll be interesting to see what he's got to say when GMH follows suit and puts the lid on their lollie jar as well........

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by cavvy

I knew someone would believe it, even quoting Tonyspeak numbers as gospel

Good. You seem to know a lot more. Maybe you should run the sport, instead?

Maybe I should read into what he says as the exact opposite of what he means? I've only got a media report to go on, btw.

If he is making a public comment, he is effectively putting his backside on the line, isn't he?

What any good boss would also do is work to ensure Plan B is in place... But since you know Plan B will fail cavvy, then keep up the personal BS!

[MPA]

Originally Posted by MPA quoting Tony TBW

"As a sport we run at around $200 million between V8 Supercars, our events and our teams.

"The other day Ford announce $2 million in cuts. As a percentage, that's not very much."

Ummmmmm. Yeah Tony, unless I'm very much mistaken, that would be 1% give or take a bit. He could have said 1% and sunk the boot in.

"Not very much" sounds polite for a bloke like him.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Good. You seem to know a lot more. Maybe you should run the sport, instead?

Maybe I should read into what he says as the exact opposite of what he means? I've only got a media report to go on, btw.

If he is making a public comment, he is effectively putting his backside on the line, isn't he?

What any good boss would also do is work to ensure Plan B is in place... But since you know Plan B will fail cavvy, then keep up the personal BS!

It is a lot easier than you make out SSbaby - you believe, I dont.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by cavvy

It is a lot easier than you make out SSbaby - you believe, I dont.

Ahhh but that is where you are wrong, cavvy!

Nowhere did I say 'I believe' (go ahead, check). I was just stating I don't know where you got your information from because everything in your sarcasm was not reflected by the article I read.

What else is a guy to supposed to read into that article?

And no, I'm not a fan of Cochrane's.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Back on topic. I've been a fan of Australian Touring Car racing since the mid '70s, but i'm over the Ford v. Holden thing. In fact, i presently own one of each.

What particularly turns me off is the mindless idiots who think all Holdens are good and all Fords are crap, or vice versa. Wake up to yourself! Holden & Ford have both built some wonderful cars over the years and they have both built some god awful crap.

A good car is a good car, whatever the badge.

[Bimmerhead]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

A good car is a good car, whatever the badge.

True enough David but sometimes one's experience with a particular make tends to colour one's opinion. For example, I've had three Commodores over the years and ALL of them were absolute dogs. All for different reasons but all were design or manufacturing faults that were bad enough that the car was unusable (literally) for varying periods of time during their first 6 months of life.

On the other hand, I've had three Falcons and they have never let me down....

That said, I know other people who have had the exact opposite experience.

So I guess its just luck whether you get a lemon (or a series of lemons) from one manufacturer or the other.

[SSbaby]

Going one step further... I detest technophiles who like to knock pushrod V8s. These engines are superb... and bulletproof. In fact, the V8SCs themselves are bulletproof. How many DNFs do we see due to mechanical failure? I dare say a lot less than in the days of Grp A.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Going one step further... I detest technophiles who like to knock pushrod V8s. These engines are superb... and bulletproof. In fact, the V8SCs themselves are bulletproof. How many DNFs do we see due to mechanical failure? I dare say a lot less than in the days of Grp A.

That was part of the art of racing though, particularly the likes of Bathurst, where some mechanical sympathy was required to finish the race

[Steve Carter]

I was reading in the Sun Herald this morning an article by Peter McKay saying there were thoughts within the sport that a silhouette formula may be the next step ala the NASCAR build - spaceframe chassis - 2 litre motor pushing out 280 bhp and limited telemetry and small wings - that way limiting the build cost of a car to under $200k and he was saying theres probably 20 manufacturers out there who maybe interested in a touring car formula of this style. I must say I did enjoy the super tourers when they ran that series they were damm quick cars.

Having said that I still own a AUII XR8 and a series 1 RX7

[mac]

Does Mr Cochrane take V8Supercar followers as fools?

Hmmm, Ford pulls out huge amounts of money from the sport - including funding for a number of considerably well-established teams.

Then three weeks later, Mr Cochrane comes out to publicly state that manufacturers are not important to the series, and everything is 100% ok.

Please...

Originally Posted by Tony Cochrane

"Red versus blue - if you look on our fan research base - has been dropping for quite some time."

How convenient as Ford pulls out funding of five teams...

Originally Posted by Tony Cochrane

"But if you walk around an event, the majority of people are wearing team merchandise. They're supporting Dick Johnson Racing, or HRT (Holden Racing Team), or Triple Eight (Team Vodafone).

"There are not than many people these days wearing Holden merchandise, or Ford merchandise per se."

This is the braindead comment of the week - and proves absolutely nothing. Are you suggesting Holden Racing Team merchandise does not count as Holden merchandise!!!???

Mr Cochrane, have you been to the merchandise area lately? The only merchandise for sale in any great numbers is team merchandise - and you will find the majority of that has a fairly prominent manufacturer badge somewhere onboard.

I also think you will find that there may well be some arrangements in place limiting what manufacturers can do in terms of merchandise - given it is such an important stream of funding for teams.

Originally Posted by Tony Cochrane

"This category 12 years ago, 65 to 70 per cent of its total income came from the two manufacturers," he said.

"Today I'd say that figure is 15 per cent but I'm probably being very generous.

"As a sport we run at around $200 million between V8 Supercars, our events and our teams.

So, let me get this straight here, 15 per cent of $200 million is $30 million. Which means, according to Mr Cochrane's "generous figures", each manufacturer is spending $15 million per year on V8Supercars.

$15 million on car development and building, team funding, driver salaries, marketing and promotion...?

Also, belittling the amount of money Ford has pulled out is not going to win any fans among the Ford teams. Tell Dick Johnson or Jason Bright that the percentage of money Ford has pulled out doesn't really mean anything...

Originally Posted by Tony Cochrane

""What we've done very effectively over the last 12 years is take our reliance off manufacturers.

"Having a third manufacturer is not stamped urgent because of that.

"It would be great to have a third or fourth manufacturer. But we're not out there knocking down doors saying if we can find one we'll be out of business."

Translation - we've spoken to a few manufacturers, but none are interested in joining the sport at the moment.

It's all very well to change your mind at the 11th hour, Mr Cochrane, but well over a decade of shoving the Ford v Holden garbage down other manufacturers' and the public's throats is not going to be forgotten overnight.

[Gaz170]

As a Ford fan, every car in our extended family wears a Toyota badge (ok, the Lexcen is stretching the truth a bit), car before that was a Commodore, before that Japanese jobs.
Never owned a Ford in my life, but my dad tought me to drive in his XB all those years ago.