FIA double standards/Brundle attacks FIA against Sunday Times MERGE - Page 5

alchemy · 11 Dec 2007, 08:31 (Ref:2086269)

F1 is run by Italians.....then the French a distant 2nd. They hated the "Garagist" period where the likes of Cooper, Lotus, Brabham, McLaren etc. gave them a hard time. So they will be very unsympathetic towards teams like McLaren. The FIA is just a front.

garcon · 11 Dec 2007, 09:55 (Ref:2086330)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

You mean someone in the FIA could actually give a **** as to what we think?!

If they think we have any influence within the sport then yes.

So we should be safe.

P.S. Gold star for alchemy for the best groundless conspiracy post yet.

Super Hans · 11 Dec 2007, 10:01 (Ref:2086339)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchemy

F1 is run by Italians.....

...and there was me thinking it was run by a diminuitive Englishman called Bernard.

alchemy · 11 Dec 2007, 10:19 (Ref:2086356)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

...and there was me thinking it was run by a diminuitive Englishman called Bernard.

Well we all make mistakes. The guy your'e thinking about organises race meetings, and does a good job too. He has also raised the profile of F1. But running it would mean he decides the rules. He doesn't do that.

Super Hans · 11 Dec 2007, 10:26 (Ref:2086369)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchemy

But running it would mean he decides the rules. He doesn't do that.

You're right. The rules are decided and upheld by the FIA. Headed by Maximilliano Mosely.

alchemy · 11 Dec 2007, 10:26 (Ref:2086370)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

.... Gold star for alchemy for the best groundless conspiracy post yet.

You won't find conspiracies announced in the "Conpiriacies" section of newspapers. I base my opinion on the FIA's track record over several decades.

Alan Raine · 11 Dec 2007, 10:29 (Ref:2086374)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchemy

F1 is run by Italians.....then the French a distant 2nd. They hated the "Garagist" period where the likes of Cooper, Lotus, Brabham, McLaren etc. gave them a hard time. So they will be very unsympathetic towards teams like McLaren. The FIA is just a front.

To be fair the "Garagist" period was well before Max took control.

johnw · 11 Dec 2007, 10:42 (Ref:2086388)

In fact when he was a Garagista!

garcon · 11 Dec 2007, 11:33 (Ref:2086417)

As was Bernie!

littleman · 11 Dec 2007, 20:30 (Ref:2086751)

All organizations reflect the man at the top.No surprise then that the FIA are smug,arrogant, aloof and just waiting for a fall.

Taking the media to court may just be their final act of folly.Alienate the TV companies, the Newspapers and the specialist mags and F1 will quickly disappear from view, with the sponsors in tow.

Where would F1 be without the media? The gravy train stops dead without it and Bernie should realise this more than anyone.

I really would like to see the entire global media empires kick it into touch along with the despicable Mosley.

Chaos81 · 11 Dec 2007, 21:31 (Ref:2086793)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle2414580.ece

I like the fact that it's listed as being subject to a legal complaint but they still don't take it off the site. Perhaps not too worried about it, then...

Thanks.

alchemy · 12 Dec 2007, 07:02 (Ref:2087024)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

To be fair the "Garagist" period was well before Max took control.

But Balestre was the dictator then..... and he was 'made'.... if you get my meaning!

MacMan · 12 Dec 2007, 07:52 (Ref:2087036)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchemy

But Balestre was the dictator then..... and he was 'made'.... if you get my meaning!

I see similarities between Max and Balestre but I think in fairness to Max he has done a lot for the sport early on in his tenure and he has also done a lot for road safety. However I do see that the FIA under MM over the last 7 years (especially)has been turning down a path that possibly only a new leadership group can bring them back from. Why has this action never been taken previously when a media representative/s has been outspoken against the FIA and its running of several championships, F1 included? Why now? To me it shows that they do not have a handle on things anymore.

I still strongly believe that MM over stepped the mark with regards to Sir Jackie and I hope that Sir Jackie will seek some form of retribution from MM

Gt_R · 12 Dec 2007, 11:13 (Ref:2087138)

It is probably insensitivity on FIA's part, that they failed to realise that in certain countries, freedom of press is highly valued and seen as a 'watchdog' to check against governing authorities from abusing their powers.

And even if FIA felt that the allegations were untrue, it's unfortunate that while legal means are still a right of the FIA to pursue, that the FIA had to resort to it. It may purge and force an apology at best, but the root of the issue is still going to exist.

What needs to be done, is that currently there is a big gap of misunderstanding between FIA, teams, media and fans. And rather than resolving it, the media use their powers to air their 'opinions', FIA gets testy, and tension just builds as fans take sides. All is bad.

Taking legal action isn't smart, rather i think FIA may be better placed to spend a closed door session ironing out and clarifying misunderstandings between the FIA and the leading media/journalists, and if there are indeed valid criticisms coming out from it, to work to correct their mistakes.

FIA isn't perfect, the media isn't perfect. For each to attack the other's weakness just goes to cover the good that each bring, and tarnish the fans' enjoyment.

Chiefy · 12 Dec 2007, 17:11 (Ref:2087341)

Well, the French magazine AutoHebdo has latched on to the story about Brundle vs FIA. The impression I get is that it's unnerved the journos here - but the outcome of this one is obviously a little way off yet...

**ghinzani** · 12 Dec 2007, 21:04 (Ref:2087478)

Its getting so ludicrous now its like being back in the Balestre days... btw is he completely off the scene now? I guess as he's nearing his late 80s he is either senile or too frail or else he would be poking his oar in..

Alan Raine · 13 Dec 2007, 08:16 (Ref:2087719)

The plot thickens!

http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1396

I'm not really sure what to make of this.

Marbot · 13 Dec 2007, 08:37 (Ref:2087729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

I'm not really sure what to make of this.

Well if it's difficult for you,have some sympathy for us non-subscribers.

MacMan · 13 Dec 2007, 09:28 (Ref:2087760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Well if it's difficult for you,have some sympathy for us non-subscribers.

what he said

davyboy · 13 Dec 2007, 09:32 (Ref:2087763)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

The plot thickens!

http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1396

I'm not really sure what to make of this.

Its what you'd expect to get if you put a lawyer in charge of something... which is what Max is. I know a large commercial corporation which has a lawyer as a CEO and a few other lawyers on the board... its like a badly run government surfing from one trial to the next... not too dissimilar to the FIA actually !

I'm sorry if I've offended any lawyers here, but I'm sure even you guys know what I mean.

Teretonga · 13 Dec 2007, 19:14 (Ref:2088153)

It means racing has moved from "competing on the track" to "competing in the courtroom".

There has been an increasing move at all levels of competitive motorsport (by that I mean serious racing-for titles-not club or historic meetings, etc)
to be contested over rule infractions.

In turn the rule makers have become increasingly active trying to micro manage the sport by regulation, with an ever increasing and introspective mass of minute regulations to govern every little possible infraction or incident.
This results in massive publications of rules that few people can possibly assimilate and consequently trip people up over and over.
Appeal courts and inquiries will rule the day but they will be the death of the 'sport' in motorsport...

This is happening at all levels from karting to F1...so you had better get used to it.

Muzza Bean · 14 Dec 2007, 01:41 (Ref:2088345)

It really should have been foreseen. It's a mirror image of what happens in politics when you overstay your reasonable tenure. Good intentions, forward thinking philosophies are brought into being by the new leaders who have had a chance to view the domain from the outside. After a few terms in office, said leader becomes enamoured of his own importance and "rightness" and when confronted by opposition, responds with anger and vitriol.

That is what has happened over the past several years. "These upstart team principles who are mere lower-class-made-good - how dare they challenge my supreme authority?" is the attitude of this little demi-god. It's happening in the country of mine with a leader who has been in power for eight years. Challenges to authority are met by stinging rebuke, and very public and personal with it.

In the FIA's case it get's worse because of the sort of man that Mosely is. As the years of his abuse of power go by he becomes ever more conceited of his supreme, even divine, authority. It's not sufficient to simply rule with a strong hand, but he sees it as his duty to crush his opponents. This is what he has (in his mind) done with Ron Dennis who he has openly ridiculed in the past. The attack on JYS should have been the end of him but the frail ferrets of F1 are still terrified of him.

The dragging of FIA and F1 as a sport into French law courts - if it really does happen - will be the end of the era. It's a lawsuit born of anger, not reason, and cannot succeed, just read MB's article. The distant drums are growing more plain to hear now Max. The strong defence of Sir Jackie (yes I'm a fan of his) by Damon Hill and leading F1 scribes, and now Brundle's honest appraisal of the cancer within the sport, bring the end of Max's reign closer to reality. It can't come soon enough, but we need a successor who will have to genuinely win election, not the insider horsetrading that passes for elections at the moment.

The era of his most positive impact on the sport is so far in the past that he will be remembered for the unpleasant, the unfair, and the downright unacceptable. Remember FIA is supported by members all over the world who are license holders - i.e. racers - and most of them will surely feel greater empathy for a JYS, a Damon Hill, Brundle, Ron Dennis, Eddie Jordan etc. The point being, the sport rightly "belongs to" racers all over the world, not some politician who could never make it as a driver or constructor. He is supposed to reflect their wants and needs not his own self-serving arrogance.

Sorry, am I being to strongly opionated, but it is my opinion borne of 40 years since that year of years when cars weren't fag packet aircraft flying upside down on four wheels by technicians in pitlane.

Gt_R · 14 Dec 2007, 05:23 (Ref:2088439)

One never have to apologize for opinions that are based on true observations and/or facts, or made with good intentions at least. And similarly, i like to give Martin that benefit of doubt that it was with good intentions, even if it wasnt' straight for facts.

I don't know if the Mclaren's apology will actually strengthen the case for FIA though. Much allegations of the FIA made by the media, and even respectable individuals like JYS, are based not on a true understanding of details, but on the basis of trust that what Mclaren has been telling is the truth. With that basis as "facts", they go on to accuse FIA of a witch-hunt, a personal grudge and finding fault with an innocent Mclaren.

Now that it is revealed that Mclaren's words were wrong, and while the intention of the likes of Martin and JYS were not wrong, the FIA could point out how poorly formed those opinions were, and that those mentioned were irresponsible in ensuring that their opinions can stand while damaging the integrity of the FIA and the WMSC members.

As i've felt early, i understand many fans and people have given Mclaren the trust and defended rigorously the team against FIA. Unfortunately, the investigations did turn up something, Mclaren's words has misled those who stand up for them and now left them open to criticism.

Hopefully, this courtcase between Martin and FIA will be withdrawn, and both parties, in light of new statements, can re-evaluate their earlier formed opinions.

ensign14 · 14 Dec 2007, 09:04 (Ref:2088545)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Its what you'd expect to get if you put a lawyer in charge of something... which is what Max is. I know a large commercial corporation which has a lawyer as a CEO and a few other lawyers on the board... its like a badly run government surfing from one trial to the next... not too dissimilar to the FIA actually !

I'm sorry if I've offended any lawyers here, but I'm sure even you guys know what I mean.

Still better than accountants..."sack the cleaners and get junior staff to do it! We'll save £16 per day..."

Within three months the junior staff has all left...

davyboy · 14 Dec 2007, 09:45 (Ref:2088585)

--- start_digression

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

Still better than accountants..."sack the cleaners and get junior staff to do it! We'll save £16 per day..."

Within three months the junior staff has all left...

You're right of course. I'm working right now with a company CEO who's an accountant and is only happy when he's buried knee deep in spreadsheets. The guy's talented when it comes to detail, but cannot see beyond the end of his nose when it comes to the bigger picture... and things really have no direction.

--- end_digression

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