Group A Rover SD1/Vitesse Rally History (sep from main thread) - Page 4

VIVA GT · 6 Jan 2009, 13:56 (Ref:2366366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

I...While we're back with the rally cars, a couple more thoughts:
Tom Walkinshaw also did the 1984 National Breakdown Rally, first round of the British Open series in a Herbie Clips-backed Vitesse- found a mention of this in an old Rally Sport mag over Christmas, but no pics. Anyone have an idea of which car it was?
...

I spectated on that event and would have certainly taken pictures... I'm planning to release my old motorsport 35mm slides from my mothers loft sometime soon and scan them onto my computer.
I'll add this to my list of things to look out for and post it up when I find it (along with 100's of Group 1 and Group A saloon cars).

**chunterer** · 6 Jan 2009, 14:41 (Ref:2366393)

Excellent VGT!! I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to seeing your images in various threads.

MG Rover Sport · 6 Jan 2009, 21:34 (Ref:2366621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Did the A3xxVUK registered cars start off life as cars used at the Donington Rallysprint events- that thought rings a vague bell, possibly from earlier in the thread?

Yes KA, well virtually. As far as I can tell '377' and '379' both contested a rally in France at the end of October 1983 called the Trophee Jean Francois Piot with Rene Metge in '377' and Tony Pond in '379'. Not sure about Metge, but TP finished 3rd Overall. This event took place a week before the 1983 Austin Rover Rallysprint.

I didn't go to the 1983 event - for some bizarre reason that momentarily escapes me! - so I don't have any of my own photos from that event. I do know that both '377' and '379' were used at Donington on that day though. I assume the missing car '378' was also used at the event, or possibly just a spare car on the sidelines just in case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Tom Walkinshaw also did the 1984 National Breakdown Rally, first round of the British Open series in a Herbie Clips-backed Vitesse- found a mention of this in an old Rally Sport mag over Christmas, but no pics. Anyone have an idea of which car it was?

Yes I do, and it was '379' and you are right KA it was in Herbie Clips livery. The same car also contested the 1984 Silva Stages in Daily Mirror / Unipart livery. With Tom Walkinshaw driving and John Daniels co-driving, the Rover retired after ripping off the back axle on Stage 2!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Secondly, and probably already mentioned, one of the ex-Computervision cars (B564AOX I think) went to Gordon Smith in Scotland, who campaigned it for a couple of years at least with backing from Aberdeenshire garage W&R Murray of Alford (think they were a Rover dealer at that time?). The car certainly did the RAC in 1986/7 in his hands- a DNF in 86, (head gasket early on the second day), but finished 36th in 1987. Again, I found a couple of not particularly good shots of the car in Rally Sport mag RAC reports (At that time, Rally Sport's post-RAC issue used to attempt to publish a pic of every single car on the event)

You are on the ball tonight KA - as if we expected anything different!

It was indeed B564 AOX that Gordon Smith bought from the factory and ran from 1986 up until about 1988 or 1989 (sorry records not to hand!). He has since sold the car and it now belongs to a collector in Northern Ireland.

I'll dig out some photos for you all, after responding to the last couple of posts above...

MG Rover Sport · 6 Jan 2009, 21:37 (Ref:2366626)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I spectated on that event and would have certainly taken pictures... I'm planning to release my old motorsport 35mm slides from my mothers loft sometime soon and scan them onto my computer.
I'll add this to my list of things to look out for and post it up when I find it (along with 100's of Group 1 and Group A saloon cars).

That would be awesome if you could do that VIVA GT. I'm intersted in all of the Rovers - pretty much like everyone on here I guess? - but specifically the rally and rallysprints ones! No rush, as and when you can - hurry up about it though...

MG Rover Sport · 6 Jan 2009, 22:01 (Ref:2366644)

(below) : A379 VUK on the 1984 National Breakdown Rally driven by Tom Walkinshaw and Rob Arthur - photo courtesy of Rob Little and uploaded to 'the' British Rally Forum (with permission) - which I cannot mention unless I want to be red carded again! - by Mark Lowe. Many thanks.

(below) : B564 AOX in the hands of Gordon Smith, sponsored by Murrays of Alford on the Autofit Argyle Stage Rally - photo courtesy of 'chunkymonkey' from the same source as above! Many thanks.

I trust both photographers are happy for me to re-post their work here seeing as I have quoted them both, thanked them both and stated the source of the images. Many thanks again to you both, however if it causes a problem I will delete them both forthwith with full apologies.

KA · 7 Jan 2009, 10:15 (Ref:2366903)

Brilliant stuff- Gordon Smith must have got through quite a few Rover front spoilers as one of the shots in the Rally Sport RAC reports shows the front spoiler missing as well

KA · 7 Jan 2009, 10:49 (Ref:2366921)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Yes KA, well virtually. As far as I can tell '377' and '379' both contested a rally in France at the end of October 1983 called the Trophee Jean Francois Piot with Rene Metge in '377' and Tony Pond in '379'. Not sure about Metge, but TP finished 3rd Overall. This event took place a week before the 1983 Austin Rover Rallysprint.

I didn't go to the 1983 event - for some bizarre reason that momentarily escapes me! - so I don't have any of my own photos from that event. I do know that both '377' and '379' were used at Donington on that day though. I assume the missing car '378' was also used at the event, or possibly just a spare car on the sidelines just in case.

I might have posted this link before- '379' on Rallysprint duty:

http://flickr.com/photos/estoril/2145324949/sizes/l/

More- '377?'
http://flickr.com/photos/estoril/214...n/photostream/

KA · 7 Jan 2009, 12:42 (Ref:2366990)

MG Rover Sport · 8 Jan 2009, 13:30 (Ref:2367618)

Many thanks to the flickr.com links to the rally photos KA. I think we've all seen some excellent photos on there, but when it comes down to it, I often forget to search their albums for what I'm looking for at the time! Must make a mental note to use it more in the future.

I'm also looking forward to VIVA GT's photos of the 1983 Rallysprint. I've identified that Nigel Mansell drove '379' and that Derek Warwick drove '377' at Donington on that day. As the front number plates are covered with sponsors stickers, you can only tell which car is which from images of the back of the cars.

If anybody has any rear photos of the Rovers driven by Jimmy McRae, John Watson, Pentti Arrikala, Stig Blomqvist, Danny Sullivan or Tony Pond, I would be most grateful if they could let me know what the registration number of each car is.

The 1984 Rallysprint is even harder! We know that three cars - A478 WOE, '479' and '480' were used - but with both front and rear number plates covered by sponsors stickers, it's impossible to tell who drove which one!

KA · 8 Jan 2009, 15:50 (Ref:2367699)

Looking at the pics of 'A379VUK' at the rallysprint, and the reshelled version in both Del Lines and Duncan Holder's ownership,

http://www.adriansslotcarworld.co.uk/DRover.htm

it's interesting to note that some of the very 'non-Group A' features, such as the fuel fillers cut into the rear side window and the exhaust routed through the back panel have been carried over from the shell written off by Lines and were on the car back in '83- presumably in preparation for going to the Middle East

This begs a question. I've got a suspicion that might not the same shell that appeared on the National Breakdown rally in early '84 as '379'....?

MG Rover Sport · 8 Jan 2009, 16:53 (Ref:2367742)

I'm sure you're right KA - even more so when you consider that (according to my records of '379') the car didn't actually enter any rallies between 15 July 1984 (Silva Stages) and 1/2 November 1984 (Oman Rally). That's nearly four months - plenty of time for a top rally team to rebuild a new car into a new bodyshell specifically strengthened for the rigours of the Middle East.

Having said that, the Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team cars could quite easily have been built at Cowley (or Kidlington?) whilst '377' and '379' were rallying. It only takes 5 minutes to switch over a VIN No, two Reg Nos and a tax disc!

All speculation of course, and I would be the last one to suggest that Austin Rover Motorsport behaved improperly.

Leave it with me and I'll see what I can unearth...

KA · 9 Jan 2009, 10:46 (Ref:2368133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Having said that, the Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team cars could quite easily have been built at Cowley (or Kidlington?) whilst '377' and '379' were rallying. It only takes 5 minutes to switch over a VIN No, two Reg Nos and a tax disc!

All speculation of course, and I would be the last one to suggest that Austin Rover Motorsport behaved improperly.

Leave it with me and I'll see what I can unearth...

If they didn't re-use reg nos on more than one shell, then I suspect they may have been one of the few works rally teams not to....

VIVA GT · 9 Jan 2009, 11:23 (Ref:2368162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

...
I'm also looking forward to VIVA GT's photos of the 1983 Rallysprint. I've identified that Nigel Mansell drove '379' and that Derek Warwick drove '377' at Donington on that day. As the front number plates are covered with sponsors stickers, you can only tell which car is which from images of the back of the cars...

Don't want to dash your hopes here, but it's the 1984 National Breakdown Rally that I may have pictures of, NOT the rallysprint (although I would have watched that avidly on TV I wonder if the video is still at Mum's...)

MG Rover Sport · 9 Jan 2009, 12:09 (Ref:2368196)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

If they didn't re-use reg nos on more than one shell, then I suspect they may have been one of the few works rally teams not to....

Exactly KA. The Metro 6R4s they used later also had incidents of this happening from time to time. It doesn't make it any easier for the researchers 20-odd years later does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Don't want to dash your hopes here, but it's the 1984 National Breakdown Rally that I may have pictures of, NOT the rallysprint (although I would have watched that avidly on TV I wonder if the video is still at Mum's...)

Sorry VIVA GT - my mistake! Next time I'll try not to get as excited and I might be able to read you post a little more accurately! I'd STILL be very interested in any photos you have of the Rover on the 1984 National Breakdown Rally anyway.

MG Rover Sport · 9 Jan 2009, 23:49 (Ref:2368634)

I just found the original version of the photo below on www.flickr.com and the caption under the image states...

Taken on September 22, 2007
Taken in Upper Castle Combe, England

...which means it must have been on display at the 2007 Rally Car Day at Castle Combe - pretty much as I speculated earlier.

VIVA GT · 10 Jan 2009, 17:36 (Ref:2368928)

Well folks, the good news is that I've found my pictures from the National Breakdown Rally, bad news is that they're not that good, but here's two of them anyway (just so you can't say I didn't keep my promises!)
http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ALLYSD1-01.jpg
http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ALLYSD1-03.jpg

MG Rover Sport · 10 Jan 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2368949)

Not a problem at all VIVAGT - many thanks for uploading them. Put it one way, at least you have the advantage over us in that you were actually there and saw '379' on the day!

MG Rover Sport · 15 Jan 2009, 00:31 (Ref:2371716)

Getting back on a rallying theme, I also found the following images of the red / white rallycar A379 VUK parked on the infield at Castle Combe during the 2007 Rally Car Day...

http://www.chrisharrison.smugmug.com...535_tvFft-A-LB
http://www.chrisharrison.smugmug.com...829_AcaLK-A-LB
http://www.chrisharrison.smugmug.com...039_XzdPr-A-LB
http://www.chrisharrison.smugmug.com...724_A4RQ4-A-LB

...and looking at the first image it appears like the offside front suspension has collapsed! Here are some further detailed images of the same car parked in the paddock, presumably earlier on the same day...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...ost=good-times
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...ost=good-times
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...ost=good-times

The latter images are excellent, and a perfect opportunity to see the bonnet vents, front wing vents, exhaust pipe exitting through rear bodywork (ignore the additional silencer added to comply with Combe's strict noise regulations!) and the fuel fillers in the rear side windows - all original 1985 Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team items.

Jesper OH · 15 Jan 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2372200)

http://www.rallye-info.com/carspecs.asp?car=226

Some rally info on the Vitesse

Jesper

KA · 20 Jan 2009, 16:14 (Ref:2375410)

Staying with the rally theme for a while, more pics:

Tony Pond in B565AOX- captioned as 1985 RAC, but looks more like it was the National Breakdown earlier in the year?
http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

Definitely the RAC this time- Russell Gooding's 'Servis' backed A480WOE
http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

Looking back through old magazines, I found an article in a mid-80's Rally Sport magazine on building a privateer/club Group A rally Rover which was quite interesting- particularly as it mentions the difficulty in obtaining, and the sheer cost of some of the homologated Group A kit used on the 'works' cars. As an example, apparently the rear axle & diff used on the TWR cars was available- at a price not far short of the total cost of the club car featured in the article! More on this later, especially as I think I've got a pic or two of the car featured...

(and for good measure, back on the circuits, Walkinshaw/Percy at the '85 TT)
http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

MG Rover Sport · 20 Jan 2009, 17:42 (Ref:2375459)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Tony Pond in B565AOX- captioned as 1985 RAC, but looks more like it was the National Breakdown earlier in the year?

Quite right KA - if it was the 1985 RAC it would be Mike Stuart driving at No 44, and we can clearly see a No 10 on the bonnet - Pond's 1985 National Breakdown Rally start number.

Top man!

KA · 21 Jan 2009, 12:01 (Ref:2376035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Quite right KA - if it was the 1985 RAC it would be Mike Stuart driving at No 44, and we can clearly see a No 10 on the bonnet - Pond's 1985 National Breakdown Rally start number.

Top man!

I'd been about to post it as '85 RAC until I remembered Pond would have been in a 6R4 by then, and took a closer look at the pic

(Utterly off-topic, but too good to resist....!) http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

KA · 2 Feb 2009, 11:48 (Ref:2386529)

Back to the stages for a moment- they're a bit like buses, you wait ages for one and then several come along at once

. Another pic of Walkinshaw on the 1984 National Breakdown turned up on the Autosport forum over the weekend. Pic taken in Dalby, copyright Paul Hurdsfield

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/Hurdsey/car26.jpg

...and then, looking through some totally unrelated rally pics, found this:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Beck3539...65364299482722

I don't know where or when , obviously somewhere in Europe, maybe a modern historic event? Same Herbie Clips colours, (with the addition of some Marlboro logos), but a different reg no- this time it's A684NJO....
(Incidentally, something that hadn't occurred to me- that paintjob is only a couple of dark blue stripes away from the colours on FJO450Y, the rallycar Walkinshaw crashed in Belgium in '83, the one rumoured to be converted from a touring car shell...
http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmp1088cr9.jpg )

VIVA GT · 2 Feb 2009, 12:19 (Ref:2386540)

Looking closely at the photo's I'd say that the two (mobile) Herbie Clips cars are different A648NJO looks like a 'proper' tarmac car whereas the national Breakdown car does look more like a forest car.
(I appreciate that this caould easily be attained by simply swapping suspension and wheels etc. but why bother when you can get your hands on what TW would have had available to him at the time).
I'd have guessed that if anything was built from a Touring Car shell it would have been the tarmac spec car...
(Certainly more food for thought, well spotted KA).

KA · 2 Feb 2009, 12:32 (Ref:2386546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Looking closely at the photo's I'd say that the two (mobile) Herbie Clips cars are different A648NJO looks like a 'proper' tarmac car whereas the national Breakdown car does look more like a forest car.
(I appreciate that this caould easily be attained by simply swapping suspension and wheels etc. but why bother when you can get your hands on what TW would have had available to him at the time).
I'd have guessed that if anything was built from a Touring Car shell it would have been the tarmac spec car...
(Certainly more food for thought, well spotted KA).

Yes, I agree with you there- 'FJO' does look very much like a racer converted to a tarmac rallycar....looking at another pic of it pic that appeared earlier in the thread, it looks as if it's on the same centre-nut alloys as the race cars, rather than the conventional 5-stud fixings you might expect on a rallycar
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6826/rover8su.jpg

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