Entry fee increase

[Sheila M]

Of course, there is always the option of giving up racing and becoming marshals. The other option if you really can't afford the high entry fees would be to go hillclimbing or sprinting. Both are cheap, cheerful and relaxed and there are some wonderful people to meet. And there is virtually no restriction on the vehicle that you enter.

[RMR]

hillclimbing is boring. cant beat wheel to wheel racing at 130mph with no trees to hit. maybe when im older

and if we all became marshals who would we be marshalling!

anyway it if was a handful who couldnt afford it then fair enough...its and expensive hobbie, but the point is justifing 190 for 1 race! for 2 races fine.

[darcym]

I am with you RMR

[Slowcoach]

Well as this is a forum I'll give my t'pennyworth.
I think the allcomers race at the end of a meeting is a great idea for two reasons, if you're considering travelling to a faraway track it gives more incentive to make the journey if you can get a second race, I have resisted the chance to drive the length of the country for a mere 10 lap/15 min race, it also means that the car could be shared and a friend/mechanic has a chance to take a turn behind the wheel. I race mostly in the CTCRC and they have a one hour two driver race once a year which works out at just under £4 p.min., I have also raced in some 30 min and 45 min races put on by the AMOC and the Heritage G.T.C series all represent good value for money and the opportunity to share costs with a second driver - a big consideration for those of us who race on a tight budget! I pay my Barc membership, licence fee, club membership and championship registration fees, a reasonable but not unfair amount but what I do baulk at is then having to pay another £600 to £800 to 'register' for other series all this before I have turned a wheel in anger. I object because what if my circumstances change - the car breaks or I am unable to compete for personal reasons. Many of these series give you nothing back if you fail to compete.
This year I have been lucky enough to have access to a box at Brands and I know that those who are not really enthuisiastic spectators have commented on how boring longer distance races are, particularly those over one hour. It is difficult and confusing to follow and often totally dominated by one or maybe two cars and apart from those leaders its impossible to work who is where for anyone other than the diehard spectator.

[greenamex2]

Six to eight hundred quid to register for a club championship!!!!!

I hope they have a bl**dy good web site/end of year bash etc.

The registration for our series is 65 quid and for the AGM we usually have an outdoor kart race but this year are probably going to do a corporate rally day. And we don't usually have to pay much/anything towards it.

Slowcoach, if you just want to come out and play and your car meets our regs and you don't mind forking out 100-150 quid for some Toyo Tyres then please feel free to give the Toyo Modified Production Saloons a go.

One thing that the boss of our series does is if people just plan to do one or two races then they are asked to pay a smaller registration fee.

Do any other series or clubs do this or something similar?

[garry]

Formula Saloons is £320.00 to register and if you get your registration in by a set date then you get 2 free tyres from Dunlop, effectively giving you free registration.
If you join mid-season you do not get your free tyres but the registration will be detremined by how many races there are left.
We always have a good Awards Dinner and Dance, and try to publicise the Championship as much as possible.

[james tucker]

JR - I agree, although less strongly, that I have absolutely no desire to do 'endurance' racing. I often get offered 'corporate bribes' to go and watch them and always turn them down. Just not my, and many others, cup of tea. When I want to do this sort of thing I book the kit car in for a track day and generally much less than a couple of quid a minute.

James - On a per mile basis I whole heartedly agree that your series offers good value for money. Having has a look at your website it is just a pity it presents a very 'unofficial' image. The pincipal problem is the "cars allowed in if we feel like it". I have seen the results of these with cars being allowed in one minute and not the next. Not to mention the fact that my car wouldn't be allowed because it is 'only' a 1600.

Interesting that you have not been... when commenting with jr on this subject...Britcar allows 1600 cc cars in if they
come up to a speed test with the faster cars, this was asked for by the MSA due to closing speeds of GT'S...no one has been turned away unless they are too slow.RE- A COST SUBJECT which is on Rod's topic, with msp being squeezed by the circuits 'in the oppinion of some people'which I do not agree with and feel that it is the clubs who have an impossible job pleasing all ,I believe that co-ordinators of which I am one are responssible for the downfall of the sport,taht is not directed at any one but the system.I will explain circuits talk and have commities together the same with clubs. but the people who are responsible for promoting a race DONT . This means that if one of them has space because he only has 10 cars and the grid size is only 30 he has 20 spaces to sell, his break even may be 15 and the club he is working for makes a loss... amalgamate grids like the Super Coupe's, ask Tony Liddle how to do it...we are following that end with letting everything in, we have full grids....
sportingly
james

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by james tucker
JR - I agree, although less strongly, that I have absolutely no desire to do 'endurance' racing

I thought you ran the European ENDURANCE Racing Club??

[Steve Wood]

JR, I think James was quoting Denis Bassom's comments from his earlier posting.

[kartingdad]

You only have to look at the amount of blazers and green shirts at a BRSCC meeting to see where the money goes. If it was a business it would go broke because its costs ar out of control. Quite why it costs £150 to register for a championship is beyond me. Its not hard to count points up and send entries out is it?

[ss_collins]

kartingdad - bit harsh it think...

[RMR]

i kinda agree with karting dad. if it was a business where the customers could go other places without losing out they would go broke. almost a monopoly

[Keith Wheeler]

But drivers in BRSCC championships are not CUSTOMERS, but MEMBERS, without whom the club would not exist and the full-time officials of the club would have no jobs. Seems to be forgotten sometimes......

[kartingdad]

I hadn't forgotten- there just appears to be as many officials as racers. The club exists to serve the racers, surely. Seems to forgotten sometimes...well nearly all the time. Those scruffy racers are a pain in the neck I know but it's the racers that are putting their hard earned brass where their mouth is and turning up.

I've no quarrel with any official at all (well maybe one or two who were at the back of the queue when the common sense was doled out), in fact they are all really pleasant, but I think there are just too many. It seems to run on the lines of local government.

I shouldn't really go on, as I don't want to offend anyone, cos a lot of officials I know do it for nothing. In fact disregard everything I have said here.

[greenamex2]

Sticking up for the BARC (what has come over me!!!) they are at least cheaper (85 quid membership fee and FREE championship registration) and have always presented a friendly face.

They also are directly involved in running circuits so are possibly a bit closer to the racers than others.

And they seem quite happy to merge series and not start half a dozen new ones at the drop of a hat.

Kartingdad I suppose what I am saying is you DO have a degree of choice, your only restriction/monopoly is if you are restricted to a limited number of champinoships.

Again I believe this brings us back to the current championships structures and regs (one make/model, age restrictions either way etc). I bet if the MSA forced all series to fit the generic series regs in the blue book and you could hop between them and hence clubs you would soon see the laws of supply and demand kick in. I suspect it would cause one of the big clubs to go bust.

Some people might argue that it wouldn't work. Have a look at the racing scene in somewhere like New Zealand where it can't afford to be so picky. It may appear like disorganised chaos but they seem to get good grids and the racers can always do several races a day if they want.

[Keith Wheeler]

Denis,
Totally agree with you about the multitude of series being forced to be more generic, and if it caused one organising club to go bust, so what?
Better still, why not have just one national organising club? We have one body issuing race licences, why not one organising all championships? There could then be, say, one national production saloon championship, with perhaps 2 or 3 regional championships 'franchised' to regions of that national body. All race dates could be decided well in advance in the autumn of the previous year once the British GP date was confirmed. Race officials, marshals, and other resources required to run these meetings would also be arranged well in advance.
Too radical?

[JR Ewing]

kartingdad - spot on. if they were in business they'd have gone bust years ago and they seem to feel they should be ab exception to the rules.

[jonathanc]

I do agree that it all seems a bit too similar to local government, whereby people are in it for the power status and not to help the constituants (aka racers).

Also agree that a single national body, like the MSA would be useful and at least things could be arranged properly. However would this be too much of a headache for one body?

[Chris Y]

It wouldn't be too much of a headache for one well organised body.

Denis - Don't apologise for sticking up for the BARC - they do a fantastic job, like you say - keeping down entry fees, not starting up loads of doomed championships, friendly people, etc, etc.

If you good people on this board could choose what club you had to join (i.e. wasn't dependant on the championship/series you're running in), what would you go for? I know I would choose the BARC.

[greenamex2]

I have only run under the BARC and the BRSCC and I would go for the BARC.

I am probably a little biaised as the BRSCC intentionally trashed the series I was in at the time by changing the regs and excluding half the grid. I suppose this is why I don't want to see series just trashed but would rather see more generic series emerging out sympathetic mergers of 'struggling' ones.

As for a single authority, wouldn't be back to a real monopoly? Dictatorships are excellent PROVIDING the right people are in charge. If you get the 'wrong' person then someone somewhere is going to suffer (usually DIY club racers like myself in preference for the big wallet brigade).

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. All that is certain is that something MUST change and hope it disadvantages as few people as possible.

[Keith Wheeler]

Denis,
Take your points above, but if the single organising body was run for it's membership, with proper democratic controls and accountability, perhaps it could work?

[greenamex2]

Keith - I have no doubt it could do with the right organisation etc.

Perhaps if the management were voted in on a regular basis then at least the majority that cared enough to bother voting would have no cause for complaints or could do something about in a year or two (no comparison to Goverments please!).

Then I suppose you get into the argument as to whether the great unwashed masses are really 'intelligent' enough to know what is good for them (again, no comparison to Goverments please!).

My head hurts, I am going to go back to working out how to get my car to go round a corner as quick as an XR2 whilst there is still circuits and championships to play with.

[R59]

Denis,

You know what you have to do.... get a HT Racing engine, a Quaife dog box, and all the other bits in a Fiesta shell!

Or you could buy a Nova.... (and finish it off to Mod-Prod spec!)

As for the BRSCC and the rise, and Rod's original comments...

If you complain to a deaf person who has their back turned on you, they won't hear your complaint.

The trouble is... too many people just put up with it and ***** into their beer.

Vote with your feet.

I agree SEMSEC is far better value. I was a member a few years back, but never made it down there for a race for various reasons. I love Lydden, always have (and Cadwell - not a boys circuit!)

Rob.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Old Ropey
The whole business drives me nuts. If I had the reported £6 million needed, I'd buy Cadwell and invite everyone for the price of a couple of pints.

You could be the owner for about half that sum

[RTH]

If entry fees had increased in line with the retail price index over the last 30 years they would now be £80 - so in real terms they have more than doubled.

Its the fastest way to kill off club racing and to then shut down circuits and put housing estates on them .