LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Judd ruled out of contention.

That makes it sound like some kind of engine boot camp...

[Deleted]

Am I on the right track with Oreca numbering

Oreca 01 = Oreca 01 LMP1 (derived from Courage LC70)
Oreca 02 = Oreca FLM09 LMPC (derived from Courage LC75)
Oreca 03 = Oreca 03 LMP2 (derived from Courage LC75)
Oreca 04 = Rebellion R-One Coupe LMP1
Oreca 05 = Oreca 05 Coupe LMP2

Though with 02 that is just my perception of reality as there actually was stillborn Oreca 02 Coupe in planning stage before it got canned

[Victor_RO]

Gibson/Zytek to build the WEC LMP2 engine, Cosworth to supply electronics. Engine will be a 4-liter V8.

http://sportscar365.com/industry/gib...gine-provider/

[Coach Ep]

scary...

In the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship, the prototypes will be powered by several different engines and the chassis will include stylistic elements particular to each engine builder.

The unique engine defined by the ACO/FIA will also be eligible in the United States where all the engines will be balanced to provide identical performances.

from http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...ne-supply.html

[J Jay]

Pleased for Gibson at least. A 4L V8 should be enough to reliably produce 600bhp.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

scary...

from http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...ne-supply.html

What's so scary about that? Identical = good! What would be scary to the rules makers is if somebody built a better engine than somebody else.


Also, is this new Gibson unit going to be mandatory in the elms in 2017?

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by joeb

Also, is this new Gibson unit going to be mandatory in the elms in 2017?

Confusion here:-

Per Sportscar365 "It will be the spec engine in the FIA World Endurance Championship, while also being eligible for the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship and European Le Mans Series, which will both allow multiple engine manufacturers."

Per Dailysportscar " In the series governed by the ACO and the FIA, all LM P2s will be equipped with Gibson Technology engines."

Per ACO PR "The World Motor Sport Council has validated the selection by the ACO, FIA and IMSA committee of Gibson Technology as the sole engine supplier for cars in the LM P2 sports car category of ACO and FIA series,"

ELMS is an "Partner with ACO" according to their website

These all from copy released in the last hour...

Per Dailysportcar.com 2nd Sept "The new engine, a pure race (not production based) 600bhp V8 with either direct or port injection will be standard fit for the FIA WEC and ELMS (though the ELMS will also allow the IMSA approved engines)."



Mariantic

[Coach Ep]

ELMS is not FIA governed, only WEC is.

So mandatory in WEC but not (as far as we know it and as of right now*) in ELMS. Definitely not in IMSA.

* but I wouldn't be surprised to see a (last minute) change....

[HORNDAWG]

It seems the thought that ELMS would allow multiple engines springs from the chassis announcement..

"TUDOR Championship Prototype teams will be eligible to use the same engines and chassis they race with in the United States at the Le Mans 24 Hours and in ELMS events, providing they utilize the constructor-specific bodywork as used in all championships outside North America. Likewise, all LM P2 teams will be eligible to race in all TUDOR Championship events using the same chassis and engine configuration they use in their home championship. "

which I do not seem to get that gist from it.

Then this engine supplier, ECU supplier announcement which contains this...

" In the series governed by the ACO and the FIA, all LM P2s will be equipped with Gibson Technology engines."


reads to me as only the spec engine will be allowed in ELMS (home series) P2 entrants cars.









L.P.

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

ELMS is not FIA governed, only WEC is.

So mandatory in WEC but not (as far as we know it and as of right now*) in ELMS.

But ELMS is ACO sanctioned and the PR says "sole engine supplier for cars in the LM P2 sports car category of ACO and FIA series"

My take on this is (at the moment )

Say Dallara make a Chevrolet engined version of their standard Gibson powered car for the IMSA market (not beyond the bounds of possibility!). If I fancied one of these for my UK based team (dream) I could run it in the ELMS and at LM24, if I got an invite, as long as I used the standard Dallara bodywork.

Is that it?

Mariantic

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by mariantic

But ELMS is ACO sanctioned and the PR says "sole engine supplier for cars in the LM P2 sports car category of ACO and FIA series"

My take on this is (at the moment )

Say Dallara make a Chevrolet engined version of their standard Gibson powered car for the IMSA market (not beyond the bounds of possibility!). If I fancied one of these for my UK based team (dream) I could run it in the ELMS and at LM24, if I got an invite, as long as I used the standard Dallara bodywork.

Is that it?

Mariantic

The way I have read it, no. Now if your team was based in N. America and was considered as a TUSC home seies entrant, then yes you could run your car in ELMS rounds with a Chevy lump as long as you also used the standard Dallara bodywork.








L.P.

[Coach Ep]

The FIA and ACO have done a stellar job on explaining these changes and their implications...!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The FIA and ACO have done a stellar job on explaining these changes and their implications...!

Yup, clear as mud.

[Lanky Turtle]

From S365 "The spec engine will not feature any branding from auto manufacturers, but will be eligible for team-specific branding and potentially also from boutique automakers, under the approval of the FIA Endurance Commission."

This makes it even more confusing. So we could see a Strakka Ligier or a Panoz Dallara in WEC even though it would still be the Gibson engine?

And could a team that runs the Gibson engine in WEC run, say a Chevy Riley in the Le Mans 24?

[chernaudi]

I'm betting that the Gibson V8 will be based--if not simply rehashed (and why not for reasons that will become clear immediately in the next sentences and in the provided link)--Zytek V8s of 3.4-4.5 liter capacity. After all, the engines are clearly related, the already have a 4.0 version, and the engines are largely the same aside from bore and stroke to get their various capacities:

http://www.gibsontech.co.uk/products/engines

The engine doesn't need to be a stock block engine, and Gibson owns the IP to the old Zytek V8s and they probably have plenty sitting around and the ability to make a bunch more.

[Danske]

I propose teams brand their engines "Love", or "Money", or "The Force".

[skycafe]

yuck.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Lanky Turtle

And could a team that runs the Gibson engine in WEC run, say a Chevy Riley in the Le Mans 24?

No.
"In ACO and FIA governed series, LM P2 cars will be powered by a single engine manufacturer to be selected this September."

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/20...746_21411.html

and,
"In the series governed by the ACO and the FIA, all LM P2s will be equipped with Gibson Technology engines."

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/gi...746_21968.html

seems pretty straight forward on that.




L.P.

[Jam3s]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm betting that the Gibson V8 will be based--if not simply rehashed (and why not for reasons that will become clear immediately in the next sentences and in the provided link)--Zytek V8s of 3.4-4.5 liter capacity. After all, the engines are clearly related, the already have a 4.0 version, and the engines are largely the same aside from bore and stroke to get their various capacities:

http://www.gibsontech.co.uk/products/engines

The engine doesn't need to be a stock block engine, and Gibson owns the IP to the old Zytek V8s and they probably have plenty sitting around and the ability to make a bunch more.

Yeah, imo they were the best bet to achieve the targets without hassle, on time and on budget. They have the experience and the resources, it just makes sense!

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No.
"In ACO and FIA governed series, LM P2 cars will be powered by a single engine manufacturer to be selected this September."

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/20...746_21411.html

and,
"In the series governed by the ACO and the FIA, all LM P2s will be equipped with Gibson Technology engines."

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/gi...746_21968.html

seems pretty straight forward on that.




L.P.

But an IMSA team isn't required to run the Gibson engine and CAN run a Chevy Dallara in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, which is certainly a race governed by the ACO and the FIA.

What if an ELMS team runs the Daytona 24, perhaps jointly with an American team, in a Chevy Dallara. Wouldn't they be able to race that same car at Le Mans?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Lanky Turtle

But an IMSA team isn't required to run the Gibson engine and CAN run a Chevy Dallara in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, which is certainly a race governed by the ACO and the FIA.

What if an ELMS team runs the Daytona 24, perhaps jointly with an American team, in a Chevy Dallara. Wouldn't they be able to race that same car at Le Mans?

In order for a WEC team to score any of the points in the Le Mans round of their championship, they MUST run a Gibson Technology engine. The only way any team can run anything other than the Gibson is if they are an IWSC team that has received an invitation to Le Mans from the ACO/FIA.

If that IWSC team gets an invite to Le Mans I am sure it may be possible for the joint effort to be re-established to race at Le Mans as a non ELMS/WEC entry, if the ACO give it blessing. The ELMS team can not recieve an entry through the ELMS if they do run a Gibson.






L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

That last sentence should be "The ELMS team, can not receive an entry through the ELMS, if they do NOT run a Gibson."











L.P.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

In order for a WEC team to score any of the points in the Le Mans round of their championship, they MUST run a Gibson Technology engine. The only way any team can run anything other than the Gibson is if they are an IWSC team that has received an invitation to Le Mans from the ACO/FIA.

If that IWSC team gets an invite to Le Mans I am sure it may be possible for the joint effort to be re-established to race at Le Mans as a non ELMS/WEC entry, if the ACO give it blessing. The ELMS team can not recieve an entry through the ELMS if they do (not) run a Gibson.






L.P.

Ahh, makes sense. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me as a rule, but your explanation makes sense.

[wdave0]

I read is as.... You can enter le man's with an imsa or elms spec car but it must be fully to as balanced spec, no mix n match. Conversely, you can enter a sec spec car in IMSA but it must be strictly wec spec.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by wdave0

I read is as.... You can enter le man's with an imsa or elms spec car but it must be fully to as balanced spec, no mix n match. Conversely, you can enter a sec spec car in IMSA but it must be strictly wec spec.

There will be IWSC 'spec' cars that will not be legal at Le Mans! Only cars (2017) that utilize constructor-specific bodywork will be eligible/legal. Also, the 'new' ELMS and WEC P-2 spec are the same. Only visiting IWSC teams will be allowed to run in WEC (Le Mans round only) and the ELMS with something other than the spec Gibson Technology engine.

That would be either WEC or ELMS 2017 spec as they are the same. That still leaves the issue of if it will also include the grand fathered ELMS pre 2017 rules cars though? As of this point they are still not grandfathering any of the IWSC pre 2017 cars.






L.P.