Telefonica World Series - who can give me the full sp?

[ghinzani]

I dont know a great deal about this series apart from wasted talents like Wilson, Zonta , Narain and Montagney are in it.

Can anyone tell me about Zonta and Montagneys teams? does Zonta carry his team? Is Wilsons mob the best team? and how will Carlin fare? I'd appreciate some honest assesment please. Also are the cars gettinmg more power next year - and what does F1 and Cart think of TWS in relation to F3000 ?

Thanks

[Morcilman]

I got the chance to see the WS from close. I can tell you that they are getting more fuss than what it is for real. The organicers are very clever and they are paying famous drivers to be thre and placing them in teams with footbll colours. All is a bit fake, as the drivers are not paid because there are sponsors and teams, they are being paid to produce interest on the championship. The football teams are not paying a penny, its all fake as well, the logos are out to make it look as the competence to the Football series.
The teams are good, orr OK, but the championship is not cose at all to Cart, IRL, 3000 or something. I would compare it to british f3, indeed if I could I would rather race at F-3.
Thge product looks good now, but we have to remember that is artificial at the moment, all is paid by the organicers, but the money does not flow naturally as Sponsor pay team, team pay profesional driver and all make money... not true at all.

[ghinzani]

Thanks for that info - does anybody know much about the KTR team Edwards has signed for? I know they raced in F3 throughout Europe and also F3000 but what is their staning in TWS? I have heard of the engineer JP De Backer - I beleive he has had previous success in F3000?

[Mackmot]

The telefonica world series is not a sham, it is far better than F3000. The drivers are getting paid because of the amount of sponsorship the series brings in. In Spain motorsport is far better than over here, the general public are far more interested and therefore instead of measly 8000ish dedicated fans which you get at a British race you get 50,000 people watching the race. Also the championship is highly publicised and has great TV coverage in Spain and most of Southern Europe.
Also the cars are mega, they are a development of a Dallara F1 that never came into production, the engine is a 450bhp Nissan V6 which with a 6-3-1 exhaust system sounds gorgeous.

I just which there was more TV coverage here, as well as a couple of rounds here.

[Morcilman]

Is the team owned by Mollekens, that run Leinders in 3000 for a time. It seams a good team, I think that they are doing a good job this year.

[Mackmot]

I have to concede to morcilman I have been reliably informed from first hand information that the drivers in Nissan are not actually getting paid, however many do have free drives, which at that level is worth a few hundred thousand pound.

I was assuming this to be a fact as I know of drivers in the 2litre Nissan that were fairly well paid.

Also the engine is in fact 400bhp because the exhaust which makes the engine sound so good soaks up a lot of horsepower.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Morcilman
Is the team owned by Mollekens, that run Leinders in 3000 for a time. It seams a good team, I think that they are doing a good job this year.

Yes it is that team - thanks for the info.

[Rob29]

Does anyone know who is responsible for the sudden boom in Spanish interest in the sport?-used to be only bikes. Whoever it is we could do with him in England-we are lucky to see 500 people let alone 50.000 for anything bar F1.

[Morcilman]

The boom is spain is very simple... Money we have the bigest price money in Europe, the formula 3 price money is per lap 300 euros per lead car, 240, second, 180 third...etc per lap! and 60 euros for everybody per lap completed. The Nissan thing is different there are big price money, but for the final possitions.
The starting point was the crazy price money from the Super.Toyota championship, wich allowed drivers to get almost the full budbet back, that made a lot of racing possible, and the public is allways allowed for free.

Dont get confused, the racing is in england, the public in spain is not interested in racing jet, they dont know the drivers or cars, they go to see crashes. The TV for the f-3 and Super-Nissan is doing something for that , but we are far from england still.

The boom cames from money for drivers and from TV. Sporting wise we are not there jet, but we will.

[bleiben]

First post! Hello everybody.

Morcilman, I think you are very biased towards spanish F3. Maybe you're involved in some way with the series?.

[Morcilman]

Seriously? how can you think that?!!!

a lot (most) of people here in the forum is involved in racing, some actively some pasively. I am from spain and all I say is my oppinion, and the figures are official and you can get them from anywere.

I have the same involvements in Nissan than in F-3, but this is to give an oppinion vased on an explanation and facts.

[Mackmot]

How can morcilman be biased when he has said that British motorsport is better.

[bleiben]

Well, british motorsport is the key in motorsport. And that's not going to change.
It seemed to me that morcilman was doing some kind of bashing of TWS. As an average spanish motorsport fan I only
want to say that my interest in spanish car racing was born in 1998 with the Open Fortuna (F.Nissan 2000) and that easily match with the feelings of thousend others motorsport fans.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by Mackmot
I have to concede to morcilman I have been reliably informed from first hand information that the drivers in Nissan are not actually getting paid, however many do have free drives, which at that level is worth a few hundred thousand pound.

I was assuming this to be a fact as I know of drivers in the 2litre Nissan that were fairly well paid.

Also the engine is in fact 400bhp because the exhaust which makes the engine sound so good soaks up a lot of horsepower.

Im not calling u a liar but do u have any evidence to prove ur theory? I mean at certain tracks they are faster than F3000 cars and others they are slower but the fact remains that the cars are faster in a straight line because of the areodnamics. The cars have had a power boost from 420BHP to 450BHP, F3000 cars only have 460bhp at present also.

[Morcilman]

Bleiben; is going to change, probably, but has it change? NO
It would be great for spain, but if I wasnt happened yet.
all I am saying is that the Nissan thing is not at all the image that the organicers are giving of it (they are triying to sell it). The drivers are NOT paid, only some drivers like Montagny, Wilson and Zonta (and this one by the organicers). They are selling that a F-1 driver says "I am going to race there to make money" but that is not true at all, is all a game of the organicers. Dont get me wrong at all, I think that that is great, because it produce the image that the championship is a pro for drivers, but is not. The same was done in the Open Fortuna, and the truth was that the sistem is the same as in any other championships.
Have you wonder why in the Open Fortuna were no teams apart from Spain and Italy?, ask any english team... the organicers are salesmans, a very agresive ones, but they dont care about bracing at all. I Know that Bleiben is a big fan of this championshoip, and is a great one, all I am saying is that dont try to see it as another thing, is a normal championship with nice cars, but no diferent from the Brithish F3, F-3000, germanf-3...etc
In the Nissan 2000 or super Nissan there are no free drives as far as I know (but some very litle cases), so at the moment is the same system, Driver finds money, pays the team, races...

[ringo]

lucky the series is around though. What would have wilson, zonta and montagawhatever done this year instead? I think motorsport like TWS should use nippons as a benchmark and try to create a series were drivers can make a living like a top touring car series but with openwheelers.

[NME]

We should all hope that the TWS organizers teach somethings to other promoters ... around Europe!

Motorracing will ALWAYS depend on money ... from drivers, from teams, from TV, from sponsors ... whatever or whoever ... the point is that in Spain right now the racing circus is MEGA ... both in TWS and in GT/F3. They have big crowds (40.000 plus) for most of the races. They also have quite a few good talents racing outhere , and dont forget to look at some teams like Racing Engineering, Adrian Campos, Gabord, just to name a couple ... and compare with some other teams that you may know from international racing.
The racing world as we know it will always be in UK. The tradition is old enough to guarantee that in UK we will find the best professionals ... but that does not mean the best series everything considered. I rate BTCC and F3 very highly, but the racing in Spain have one thing that is the reason for sponsors to come in and put the money that we all need ... THEY HAVE HUGE CROWDS !!!

One season of Spanish F3 cost around € 200.000 in a top team, GTA cars will run for the same money next year (The winning Saleen this year cost € 325.000 to race all year) ... Super Nissan V6 costs aroung €450.000 ... what else can you get at the same level ???

International 3000 - € 1.000.000; Euro 3000 - € 600.000; NEW Super Renault - € 400.000 !!!

Is there any GUARENTEED way up to F1 ??? NO ... so as a driver you should look at the best show for your sponsor.

By the way guys ... Morcilman is a very good Helmet Painter www.maxxracing.com

[SALEEN S7R]

Thats true but there is no guarntees in anything.

[Morcilman]

Absolutely agree NME, specially about the helmet painting...

You are right in all, but the thing is that many people thinks that in Super-Nissan teams hire drivers for a lot of money (like it was in Formula Nippon years ago) and that is not true. There are great series in spain (specially Super.Nissan and F-3) but is not what the organicers are triying to sell outside, is not nippon, is only a good option in europe with the normal system.

[SALEEN S7R]

As is stands at the moment Id say that formula nissan is the strongest European single seater series outside F1. The cars are slightly quicker on the straights than F3000 cars and they have to make compolsury pitstops, plus if u look at the quality of the grid the drivers at the sharp end are very good.

F3000 is still very strong, but with Enge and Bourdais leaving who is there to replace them? We dont know if Pantano is going to be in the championship or not for sure, so that will leave drivers such as Toccaelo and Wirdheim to step up into the spotlight.

[bleiben]

I get your point, Morcilman. Being the first year of the series it's good enough what they have achieved. Maybe (surely) in years to come it'll be a true pro championship.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yeah I personally, for what its worth belive it will become a pro series eventually. If not completly professional then maybe like F3000 was a few years ago with certain drivers being paid by the team and others paying for drives like they all do now.

Maybe it wont happen but I can see it happening in the future, I certainly hope so at least.

[jjjoseee]

hi everybody.

this is my first post in the forum of this website. do you know anything?.
spanish people, first that do when anybody have a brilliant idea is... practice the envie... be critic and, by all the ways, put **** over the idea.
you know carlos sainz?, ok, in the world he is consider as one of the most importants drivets in rally history, but in spain people say: carlos?, he is a loser, yeahh, a twice world champion and 5 time vice-champion, but this is our way, suddenly.

here again we have the example. people of all europe looking for spain with admiration for his top level car races... but a spanish, again, putting **** over it... by the way, i'm spanish, so, i know exactly what i'm speaking.

ok. in the formula WS (because telefonica is only the sponsor, as fedex was in cart) there are, as in formula 1, paid drivers, and pay drivers.
2002 is the first year of the series, but in 2003 we will see, for sure, the first important budget differences between teams, as in the formula 1. for next season there will be teams as racing engineering, or gabord or adrian campos that, maybe, will have the double budget that for example zele motorsport.
this year, really, there are many important differences. the budget of racing engineering is much more than zele, for example. and why?, because racing engineering have a big company as vodafone in his cars, this mean a lot of money, and of course this mean that racing engineering can say: i want that driver, how much cost it?, ok, here the money.
but zele, haven't a great sponsor, so the say: i have a car in a growning champ, a ride for all the year cost: $$$, who want it?
the same that happend between ferrari and minardi. so, i can't understand what is the problem with the series, or with the spirit of the series.
never, replay, NEVER, there will be a champ in the world with full paid rides. no formula 1, no cart, no irl, and of course, no formula WS.
and ricardo zonta?. yea, he is paid, for who?, maybe for the organization?, FALSE. he is paid, with great effort (por cierto), by the gabord team. and this is so, final point.

best wishes for all. and remenber, this is not a series for spanish people, this a series for all europenas, and people of other world places. for 2003 season there will be only three races in spain (five this year), and zolder and estoril will be in the calendar alongside magny cours, and monza. maybe another one race in A1, austria.

respect the boost of the category. actually 415 HP, for next season 465 HP (really 450HP). and a new tyres evolution from michelin. in the words of bas leinders: "it will be a full diferent championship really... ", about two-trhee seconds more fast than this year is expected. this mean that for 2003 there will be not doubt about 3000 and WS comparation. finally WS is a champ for professionals to get money, or to very well sponsored drivers to get money from his sponsor (as for example alex yoong get from his malaysian sponsors).

[bingman]

huh?

[Morcilman]

I think you are getting over exited here. Calm down, nobody is triying to put WS down. The argument is that drivers have to pay. The drivers that dont pay is for a political reason to promote the championship and this kind of discussions.
The question is is this a good series? YES, do drivers become professionals here and there is money to be made? NO, or at least not any different from any other category in the world. Profesional drivers are everywere. The drivers that are paid driving WS were paid before to do othere thigs.

Dont get confused and patriotic about it. the WS is a very good championship, as it is tha Brithis F-3, F-3000, euro f-3000, etc etc. But there is no basic diference in the system