Penske

BSchneiderFan · 27 Jul 2005, 10:16 (Ref:1364496)

An entirely speculative idea, but if Mercedes-Benz had decided to enter F1 in the 1990s with Penske (for whom they built Indy engines) rather than Sauber, do you think Penske could have cut the mustard in F1?

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 10:19 (Ref:1364501)

Yes.

Well funded, they'd have attracted good staff and drivers.

luke · 27 Jul 2005, 10:22 (Ref:1364504)

Paul Tracy had a test with F1 and drove for Penske in Champ Car, perhaps he could have been a driver for them, who knows?

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 10:26 (Ref:1364508)

I think they'd have wanted to get someone a bit faster and fitter, by F1 standards.

Paul back in the mid nineties was a bit of a fat-boy....

Down F0rce · 27 Jul 2005, 10:33 (Ref:1364520)

Even so, he was still offered a job by Benetton after his test.

Penske would have been right up there, I think.

BootsOntheSide · 27 Jul 2005, 11:28 (Ref:1364575)

With full commitment and good equipment Penske would have done very well. Roger's always had a very well-organised ship, and their facilities in England were at least equal to those of a smaller F1 team of the day. As for drivers I suspect Wendlinger would've got one drive due to his Mercedes connections, and Lehto may have been as good as anyone for the second car.

**Adam43** · 27 Jul 2005, 11:47 (Ref:1364585)

I think they would have done well. If only because they would only attempt it if they were going to have the resources.

Of course they have had a crack at F1. 40 races, 1 win, 3 podiums. John Watson got the win in the 1976 Austrian GP.

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 16:48 (Ref:1364808)

They obviously would have done well, all it would have required was total commitment and they could probably have been automatic winners after a few years. Penske is a fabulous organisation.

Snrub · 27 Jul 2005, 17:51 (Ref:1364877)

I think Penske probably could have been at least resonably successful, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they would have been at Williams/McLaren's level. (too hard to say)

F1 needed someone Faster than PT? Who led the most laps in '93 and tied Mansell for victories (5)?

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1364880)

PT would have been a fair old driver in F1 IMO.

Snrub · 27 Jul 2005, 18:37 (Ref:1364923)

What year are we talking about? In '93 he was 25.

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 18:53 (Ref:1364938)

lol

I don't think Knowlesy was making an age reference, he was just using a turn of phrase, meaning "PT would have done a decent job in F1"

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1365011)

Correct!

Dan Fielden · 27 Jul 2005, 20:45 (Ref:1365030)

Yes i think they would have been succesfull but you could probably say that about the Target team and Newman/Haas couldn't you. I mean they have the resources, funds, drivers, all they need is the commitment right?

BSchneiderFan · 27 Jul 2005, 22:27 (Ref:1365100)

Penske has a depth of engineering excellence that, in my opinion, outstrips that of Newman-Haas or Ganassi. After all, so far as I'm aware, neither of those teams have built their own cars, whereas Penske have done so, and done so with great success.

Jordi · 27 Jul 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1365127)

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

VilleneuveTracy · 28 Jul 2005, 00:34 (Ref:1365166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

Quote:

Even so, he was still offered a job by Benetton after his test.

Why did PT elect to stay in IndyCar instead of moving to F1? Wasn't F1 considered to be a superior series, even in 1993?

2112 · 28 Jul 2005, 04:41 (Ref:1365228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

Why did PT elect to stay in IndyCar instead of moving to F1? Wasn't F1 considered to be a superior series, even in 1993?

According to PT, Flavio handed him a contract while alone in Europe, and told him to sign it now, or else.
PT felt pressed as a young kid and refused it without consultation. That`s his story.

VilleneuveTracy · 28 Jul 2005, 04:56 (Ref:1365231)

What could have been...

Dutton · 28 Jul 2005, 06:19 (Ref:1365265)

Totally understandable position for Tracy to take.

Jordi · 28 Jul 2005, 08:50 (Ref:1365343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

But then again Ferrari have also concentrated solely on F1 since the late 60s or so, haven't they?

BSchneiderFan · 28 Jul 2005, 10:14 (Ref:1365390)

Ferrari maintained a factory presence in enduranc racing until, I think, 1973. Of course, in the 80s, Enzo talked about going off in a huff to Indycars if the FIA didn't play ball...

Snrub · 28 Jul 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1365720)

Well put Jordi, Penske is the North American marque name. The only difference is that US OW has gone in the toilet so Penske probably doesn't have the cache among average people as they probably did back in say the late 80s and early 90s.

Meh, while PT has rarely been short on speed, it took him a lot of years to mature enough to be effective enough. Keep in mind that by the end of his time at Penske, Newman-Hass and Team Green they all hated him. If PT had ended up in F1 back then he would have gotten into a bunch of crashes, beat up MS and been turfed out of F1.

EERO · 28 Jul 2005, 17:44 (Ref:1365770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

Which leaves one to wonder if there are fleets of Red rental trucks in Europe with "Ferrari Leasing" emblazoned on the side!

Old Roger was a fairly handy driver in his day and his association with Mark Donahue brought him not only great success, but the methodology to continue that success. However, it was his greta business sense that turned Roger Penske into a very wealthy man and those yellow trucks are a huge part of the equation.

IIRC, at the time Daimler Benz was rerning to F1 w/ Sauber, and racing at Indy with Penske, wasn't Roger P a board member both at Illmor and McLaren? And hasn't Penske given up his shares at mclaren, or is he still involved?

norman-normal · 28 Jul 2005, 18:21 (Ref:1365811)

Yes EERO, Rodger started out with with just a few hundred million $ and turned it in to a fortune!
I witnessed his first race on the west coast (riverside 1958) in a ferrari. Rodger allways had the best, no rags to riches story here.
To his credit, he realised, early on that he was just an average driver but his judgement and orgenizeational skills place him in a class of his own.

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