Is the LM 24 The True World Championship?

old man · 5 Jul 2007, 16:15 (Ref:1955329)

It struck me while watching this years race that there are as many, if not more cars now in the field by dint of qualification to be there as simply direct entrants. Such cars are there "by right" having won or finished second in one of the recognised series and so demonstrated their ability.

Granted, there are still a lot that are selected by the ACO for whatever reason and I suppose French Logic will always apply but if you win the class in ALMS, for example, and then come to France and win the class again against the winners of the LMS and FIA series I think you can justifiably claim to the best in the world in that class.

Should the FIA move to make the LM24 the World Final in Sports and GT racing?

What about the teams that bring inferior driver line-ups to LM when compared to the drivers that earned them the entry, presumably for financial reasons, should that be allowed?

GTfour · 5 Jul 2007, 16:25 (Ref:1955341)

I'm not at all for it to bring in the FIA even more. Most of the times they had anything to say about LM,something changed for the worst. The last evidence being the near flattening of the Hunaudières hump.

As for LM being the ultimate endurance race,I think allmost everybody allready looks at it this way.

The Badger · 5 Jul 2007, 16:32 (Ref:1955348)

The FIA should not be allowed to mess around with the Le Mans race ..... look what happened before with the 3.5 litre formula back in 1992 with a 29 car grid ..... and in 1990 , that weirdo Jean Marie Balastre , put not 1 but 2 chicanes on the Mulsanne ..... over some new rule that said that a FIA sanctioned track couldnt have a straight longer that 1 KM ..... absurd !!!

Though the ACO can sometimes seem to be a bit arrogant and have a confusing logic , its their race and its big enough so that it doesnt need the FIA .

Bernie and Max dont like the fact that Le Mans is so big . In 1990 sportscar racing was so popular that the FIA were seriously worried that it was taking away from F1 , so they conspired to ruin it , which they did for many years .

FIA ..... STAY AWAY !!!

The Badger · 5 Jul 2007, 16:34 (Ref:1955352)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

As for LM being the ultimate endurance race,I think allmost everybody allready looks at it this way.

Adrian Newey mention on RLM , that Le Mans was the most prestigous race in the world , and that comeing from an F1 man , is saying something , imo .

SALEEN S7R · 5 Jul 2007, 16:51 (Ref:1955377)

Le Mans the ultimate endurance race? Hmm, personally I would say the Spa 24 hours or Nurburgring 24 hours is as tough. Sure Le Mans has the fastest cars but for me the Spa 24 hours is my favourite endurance race simply because im a GT racing fan first and foremost and as great as the LMP 1/LMP 2 cars are for me they are just big open single seaters.

JAG · 5 Jul 2007, 16:58 (Ref:1955381)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Le Mans the ultimate endurance race? Hmm, personally I would say the Spa 24 hours or Nurburgring 24 hours is as tough. Sure Le Mans has the fastest cars but for me the Spa 24 hours is my favourite endurance race simply because im a GT racing fan first and foremost and as great as the LMP 1/LMP 2 cars are for me they are just big open single seaters.

Spa was more interesting when it was a touring car race, epsecially in the Group A years.

AU N EGL · 5 Jul 2007, 19:22 (Ref:1955508)

Wow what a great topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Spa was more interesting when it was a touring car race, epsecially in the Group A years.

I agree. Keep Nurburgring 24 strictly for touring cars and SPA for both, just not for cars that raced in the LM24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Though the ACO can sometimes seem to be a bit arrogant and have a confusing logic , its their race and its big enough so that it doesnt need the FIA .

YES they can. and so what, it is a great race.

YES the ACO and FIA can learn from each other, but they is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

What about the teams that bring inferior driver line-ups to LM when compared to the drivers that earned them the entry, presumably for financial reasons, should that be allowed?

This is a great topic. IMHO LM should only be for the TOP lic drivers. FIA Super Lic ( F1 drivers) A & B. No C or D drivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

As for LM being the ultimate endurance race,I think allmost everybody allready looks at it this way.

YES IT IS

SALEEN S7R · 5 Jul 2007, 19:29 (Ref:1955513)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I agree. Keep Nurburgring 24 strictly for touring cars and SPA for both, just not for cars that raced in the LM24

The Spa 24 hours isnt a race for cars that race at Le Mans particularly. Sure there are a few cars there that race at Le Mans and the GT1 and GT2 classes are fundamentally the same as what you have at Le Mans.

The big differnce however is at Le Mans you dont have any MC12's, for this years Spa 24 hours there are 5 of them entered. Also at Le Mans you do not have GT3 spec machinery, for this years Spa 24 hours there are 22 entries in the GT3 class, or G3 as it is called for the Spa 24 hours.

IMO the Spa 24 hours is much more than just a regular FIA GT race, there is a huge diversity. http://www.pitstoptv.info/pitstop/wp...spa-3-juli.pdf

Speed-King · 5 Jul 2007, 19:40 (Ref:1955524)

Yeah, but 6 of the GT3 cars are in Cup du roi, which means only two of them will be on the track at a time.

DanJR1 · 5 Jul 2007, 21:46 (Ref:1955629)

way id look at it, would peugeot trade the LMS title (which is theirs) for the Le mans victory? Audi only race in America due to Audi North america wanting to sell more cars, Audi care about Le Mans

The Badger · 5 Jul 2007, 22:47 (Ref:1955663)

Of course Peugeot would .

Lusitano · 5 Jul 2007, 23:33 (Ref:1955682)

You slap "World Final" on anything, and you will get something very similar to a three-ring circus, where the main attraction is two monkeys: Bernie and Max.

GT6 · 6 Jul 2007, 07:50 (Ref:1955830)

Why worry about what le mans is, we may all have some different ideas but in reality it is still the biggest, most succesful and exciting motor race in the world, yes people do sleep during the race, but unlike some other forms of motorsport it is not because the race is boring.

Keep the FIA and other kill joys as far away from it as possible and it will survive another 75 years, give them to much control and it's future will be less certain.

old man · 6 Jul 2007, 09:30 (Ref:1955913)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanJR1

way id look at it, would peugeot trade the LMS title (which is theirs) for the Le mans victory? Audi only race in America due to Audi North america wanting to sell more cars, Audi care about Le Mans

That is just the point, Peugeot win in Europe, Audi in America but the one that wins at le Mans where they both race is the World Champ! Same in GT1 with Aston and Corvette and so on.

It does not need the FIA really, the press and internet sites could promote the idea and simply "make it so"

georgeboi999 · 6 Jul 2007, 09:34 (Ref:1955914)

Yer, the Le Mans is the world final. It should be advertise in that way.

MartinSmith · 6 Jul 2007, 09:47 (Ref:1955924)

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeboi999

Yer, the Le Mans is the world final. It should be advertise in that way.

Advertise it for what it is....the greatest motor race in the world, and keep the FIA, Bernie and the rest of that lot well away from it....great thread btw

**Aysedasi** · 6 Jul 2007, 11:29 (Ref:1956026)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Le Mans the ultimate endurance race? Hmm, personally I would say the Spa 24 hours or Nurburgring 24 hours is as tough. Sure Le Mans has the fastest cars but for me the Spa 24 hours is my favourite endurance race simply because im a GT racing fan first and foremost and as great as the LMP 1/LMP 2 cars are for me they are just big open single seaters.

Obviously I disagree (but then you knew I would

) as sportscar racing, for me, revolves around the protos. Having said that, I found GT1 much more entertaining at LM this year. Having been to LM for 22 straight years, of course I think it is the absolute pinnacle of sportscar racing, particularly having survived Ecclestone and Balestre's attempt to bring it to book back in the early 90s.

Leave the ACO to organise their great event without interference from the FIA (or anyone else) - and just pray they take a rest now from alterations to the circuit.....

AU N EGL · 6 Jul 2007, 12:43 (Ref:1956117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Le Mans the ultimate endurance race? Hmm, personally I would say the Spa 24 hours or Nurburgring 24 hours is as tough.

Ask the teams and drivers, the most difficult and tough endurance race is Sebring 12 hour, not the 24 hour races.

Sebring circuit is very bumpy and rough in many places. Sebring will test a cars limits( as well as the drivers phyical stamenia) as to how will the car can survive a beating and punishing circuit.
Rember Sebring is an old WWII bomber training airfield, with much of the concreat surface still ciri 1940s. and that is what the teams want. Some of the worst sections have been repaved and are smooth, but not all.

Sebring is very very hard on equimpent.

**Adam43** · 6 Jul 2007, 12:57 (Ref:1956134)

I think the Nurburgring probably beats Sebring in terms of "a test". Especially if you throw in the sheer numbers of competitors. Not that I have driven Sebring.

However the race that is most precious to win is Le Mans. It is where it all started*, it is a great track and will always be the endurance race.

*probably depends on your definition of started.

dj choc ice · 6 Jul 2007, 17:57 (Ref:1956409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeboi999

Yer, the Le Mans is the world final. It should be advertise in that way.

and then bernie and max wade in, all their money and destroy so it does not damage F1 in any way.

The Badger · 6 Jul 2007, 18:11 (Ref:1956426)

Look ..... let le Mans alone . Its big enough to stand by itself and does not need the FIA one little bit .

The ACO and Don Panoz brought sportscar racing back together again by standardising the rules , with the LMS , ALMS ..... and trying with respect to Asia too .

Hats off to them

duke_toaster · 7 Jul 2007, 21:32 (Ref:1957142)

It doesn't need the FIA, but ideally the FIA GT, LMES and ALMS would run a season which starts in August/September and ends in April or so and use them as qualifying events - and call the winners of the LM24 the undisputed GT/Sportscar world champions.

LM is one of the best circuits in the world, 24h of Nurburgring should stay for amateaurs and minor outfits, LMP1s couldn't race there safely.

**Adam43** · 7 Jul 2007, 22:37 (Ref:1957183)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

LM is one of the best circuits in the world, 24h of Nurburgring should stay for amateaurs and minor outfits, LMP1s couldn't race there safely.

Agreed. The Nurburgring 24 hours is a different animal; great for different reasons.

I see the idea and kinda like it, but I think it is irrelevant. The race to win is Le Mans, it already is the final (or rather the only) for Sportscar.

minimangler · 8 Jul 2007, 13:49 (Ref:1957634)

No, its like the golf masters- Europe against USA.
There's very little Japanese interest at the moment.

TheNewBob · 8 Jul 2007, 14:06 (Ref:1957648)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

IMHO LM should only be for the TOP lic drivers. FIA Super Lic ( F1 drivers) A & B. No C or D drivers.

I can't help but wonder why? I mean, where would LM be without all the lower-level drivers who have competed over the years? A lot of the smaller outfits can't afford to be running high profile drivers, and the race is as much about them as it is the big manufacturer battles.

To that and the rest of the idea of the thread - leave things as they are. It's not broke, so let's not try and fix it.

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