Street Justice: Edwards' Style (merged) - Page 2

old man · 8 Mar 2010, 14:53 (Ref:2647475)

I connected with this thread after reading Edwards comments just to see what is being said by you experts

Personally I don't watch NASCAR much at all and make no claims to any deep knowledge of it but any driver deliberately taking another out should be banned for at least some races and the worse the act the longer the ban. Admitting it is no mitigation and the last thing we want is a series where that becomes the norm which is what will happen if they don't clamp down hard NOW. Season ban IMO at least and the others who have admitted doing the same should also be called to book before we have dead drivers.

Knowlesy · 8 Mar 2010, 15:09 (Ref:2647482)

There clearly need to be moves made. It is time to clamp down on this once and for all, as it is senseless. Hit Carl and hit him hard and apply that rule ruthlessly from now on.

I mean spinning someone round deliberately at that speed with the way these cars like to float into the air is disgraceful. Brad is a stupid, idiot driver granted but Carl could have killed some specators and those are the people who need to be protected the most.

JHamilton · 8 Mar 2010, 15:14 (Ref:2647488)

I've lost all my respect for Edwards. Especially after he wrecked himself earlier in the race.

jab · 8 Mar 2010, 18:05 (Ref:2647586)

I didn't see the race. Was this "revenge" (i.e. in his mind but not in reality) for 'Dega? If so, he should just get over himself. While he is banned. Or just sort it out like a man outside the spotlight. I've never really liked the guy and it's for reasons like this. He's totally up himself

But NASCAR won't do anything. If it was a nobody driver, they'd ban, but as it's a big name, they won't do anything

paddy · 8 Mar 2010, 18:08 (Ref:2647590)

I watched it on TV in England and I too was shocked not just by Edward's actions but also by the way it has apparently been accepted. Any injury or fatality in those circumstances should lead to criminal charges. The man should be banned for a considerable period. Perhaps depriving him of his income will make him think again?

Knowlesy · 8 Mar 2010, 18:17 (Ref:2647597)

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturi

BTW - At the moment 3153 people like this latest facebook entry of his and a overwhelming majority of 2775 comment's are right behind him on this, is there something wrong Nascar fans or is it just Carl Edwards fans that can't see he almost killed another racer and spectator's on a Nascar endorsed revenge mission.

The people posting on Carl Edwards' page in support definitely won't be Carl Edwards fans.

Hepatic · 8 Mar 2010, 19:18 (Ref:2647643)

Was a shocking display of non-sportsmanship. The initial incident between them was not Brad's fault, Carl just didn't quite have the clearance. What Carl did however could be seen as attempted murder - you can't knock a car sideways intentionally at 180mph and not expect a great big crash with possibly life threatening results. I like the rivalries, it makes the spectacle but you can't have people doing things like that. Its why i went off BTCC because one day someone is going to get hurt, and being a marshal that could have been me.

As for the aerodynamics, that really needs looking at pronto. Any numpty can see that wing will create lift at 180mph in reverse, its just a matter of if the guy is lucky enough the roof flaps are enough to keep it down. A breakaway mechanism might work, where if the car goes backwards the force of the air disconnects the wing from the car. Whatever the solution, its needed quick to avoid something far worse than a dazed driver & a wrecked car...

skells22 · 8 Mar 2010, 19:29 (Ref:2647645)

can i correct someone about the other one, that one was at Talladega (saw the crash via the Grid last year) then i saw this one yesterday on Open Access 3.

JHamilton · 8 Mar 2010, 19:31 (Ref:2647647)

I agree with most of the comments here. That being said, this happens at least once a year. It won't change anything.

rustyfan · 8 Mar 2010, 19:35 (Ref:2647649)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

But NASCAR won't do anything. If it was a nobody driver, they'd ban, but as it's a big name, they won't do anything

Kevin Harvick recieved a one race suspension for aggressive driving in 2002, which saw him miss the spring Cup Series race at Martinsville. While still rather fresh to the Cup Series at the time, he wasn't exactly what I'd call "a nobody".

dyewat808 · 8 Mar 2010, 19:36 (Ref:2647650)

Frankly, the guy's an idiot, and I'm with Paddy here on this - he should have criminal charges laid against him. If this happened with the FIA, there probably would be.

"Street justice" is the stupidest term I've ever heard of - its a primitive, low-life form of anarchy - the drivers have absolutely NO RIGHT to decide amongst themselves who is right and who is not. It isn't their organisation. If they think like that, they can get stuffed. Being cynical, I bet NASCAR are loving this - it gives them publicity. I could not condemn it more. The FIA dealt swiftly and surely with the incident with Renault in F1 - if this happened in Europe, people would be up in arms. With NASCAR though, everythings hunky-dory.

I think its fascinating comparing organisations like the FIA and NASCAR - although they are two extremes at different ends, they are both comparable in one aspect - they think they can do whatever they like, they think they are separate from the law.

Think back to the Indianapolis GP in 2005 (?) where only a handful of cars competed, and the FIA decided that they had the power to pass judgement, yet they pulled out when they realised they were breaking state law by saying that all of the cars should have competed, even if in a DANGEROUS condition. A bunch of power-hungry, arrogant idiots.

Although Carl Edwards was an ****hole for doing that, it'll be NASCAR to blame if they don't do something.

It is appalling.

The move was dangerous, deliberate and calculated. If NASCAR don't do something, someone quite literally, is going to die. FULL STOP.

rustyfan · 8 Mar 2010, 19:46 (Ref:2647660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyewat808

Frankly, the guy's an idiot, and I'm with Paddy here on this - he should have criminal charges laid against him.

For what? An incident based on retaliation that could have resulted in injury?

By that logic Juan Pablo Montoya should be in jail already after sending Tony Stewart spinning three months ago at Homestead.

fieldodreams79 · 8 Mar 2010, 19:48 (Ref:2647664)

for the record, the wing is gone come Martinsville...should have never been on the damn car to begin with and it is "too little to late" for Brad and others who have gone flying. if the incident had happened in the middle of one and two, no one would be here discussing this.

bonehead move all around from Carl AND nascar. nascar for starting this "settle it between each other" crap during the off season. as for flying cars, nascar should have done something about all this after the Brad and Carl dega incident. alas, no one (important) died, so they did nothing....for those new to this, that is their MO. nascar is still run by a bunch of money hungry, ass backwards (wanna be) red necks who (i don't think) have ever sat behind the wheel of a stockcar while driven in anger. niether have i, so take what you read here with many grains.

Carl's actions are only 10% of the crap storm that has been brewing because no one wants to go to their (nascar's) races anymore. so they have to find something to get people's interests back and get them talking about their weakening series. congrats to nascar, they've done it...again. now they have to think long and hard about how to punish someone for giving them the publicity they have been yearning for.

dyewat808 · 8 Mar 2010, 19:53 (Ref:2647671)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyfan

For what? An incident based on retaliation that could have resulted in injury?

By that logic Juan Pablo Montoya should be in jail already after sending Tony Stewart spinning three months ago at Homestead.

I meant if he had caused injury, sorry that was bad writing on my part.

However, he should still be punished for intentionally causing a wreck - regardless of injury/death or not - there was intention behind it, injury or not. Analogy time: If a guy goes up with a gun to someones head, he has intention to kill. Its a pathetic society that allows an incident like that to go unpunished, and its the same with a car (or it is in my view anyway).

And anyway, leaving intentional crashing unpunished is bad for motorsports - just look at the damage the F1 crash did - loads of people took the opportunity to slag it off, condemning the sport as a whole. We don't need that.

JagtechOhio · 8 Mar 2010, 19:59 (Ref:2647675)

Amen Field, and nearly all of you who saw the same thing the same way. I had thought that my post might have drawn some fire...but that would have been from Nascar fans, not racing fans. This is a good group here.

As for this, with apologies to the poster who's name I missed...

"numpty"

Great word, new one on me.

That will be my new nickname for Waltrip. Even he made a comment about the wing making lift in reverse.

Numpty, numpty, numpty, boys.....

dyewat808 · 8 Mar 2010, 20:07 (Ref:2647683)

Quote:

Numpty, numpty, numpty, boys.....

lol

Purist · 8 Mar 2010, 20:14 (Ref:2647685)

The impact of the wing I suspect was actually pretty minimal, given how little downforce it's capable of making. The biggest issue is the the floor is higher behind the rear wheels, and slopes upward. That piece catches LOTS of air when the car is backward, and since it encompasses the rear overhang, this extra air packed in can pivot the car up and over the front axle.

I am VERY concerned about what may happen when we get to Texas and Talladega.

It's also weird, and unsettling, that Carl seemed to take the Talladega incident in stride, at the time. He admitted to putting the block, and that he wasn't really surprised that the guy behind him didn't back out of it. Then yesterday, he said he didn't think Brad did anything malicious when he saw the replay while his crew was fixing his car at Atlanta. Then he goes all ape s--t on Brad with a handful of laps to go. He just about lost it trying to tag Brad coming out of Turn 4 the lap before he put Brad on his lid at start/finish.

For those wondering, Carl and Brad made contact on lap 38 or so at Atlanta. Brad was on the bottom, right by the yellow line, and Carl was in the middle of a three-wide gaggle. Carl tried to come down, and Brad lifted when he saw Carl come lower on the banking, but there just wasn't room for Carl to get in. Brad's right front just tipped Carl's left rear, and Carl went up the hill into somebody else and they crashed into the wall. This is the incident that then put Carl 156 laps down to the leaders.

What Carl did was unacceptable, period! Something NEEDS to be done, BEFORE somebody, probably in the grandstands, dies!

As for the track, Atlanta is pretty much the fastest track in NASCAR because of the restrictor plates at Daytona and Talladega. They did restrictor plate testing at Atlanta a while back, but found it made little, if any, difference, because the cars would just run flat-out in the corners with the plates.

gttouring · 8 Mar 2010, 20:20 (Ref:2647690)

as poor as the result was Carl Edwards did not want the car to flip and careen towards the stands...
but that was a consequence of his bumping the back marker out of the way.
Carl should be suspended in the next Atlanta race-this is just a novel idea i thought of- because retaliation tactics on a track less than 1.5 miles won't be as disastrous but surely as satisfying...so he has all season to get wrecked by Brad..as NASCAR will surely want to play and spin this in a positive manner for ratings...

rustyfan · 8 Mar 2010, 20:24 (Ref:2647692)

To be honest I'm not sure replacing the wing with a spoiler will be some magic fix to keep the cars from going airborne since it seems the bulkier nature of the CoT itself gives the wind more surface to work with (Edit: which Purist touched on above as well in a much more detailed fashion as I was working on this post). I wouldn't mind being wrong, but I'm just saying, don't be surprised if we have another car take to the skies if quickly turned around at the end of the backstretch at Talladega in about a month.

Also, if the conditions are right a stock car can go airborne at pretty much any track that makes speeds of 180-190 mph+ possible, as evident by the blowover flips we've seen at Charlotte, Michigan (twice), Texas and Pocono in the past. Figured I might as well mention that in case you thought yesterday's flip was an isolated blowover flip at a non-restrictor plate track.

**FIRE** · 8 Mar 2010, 20:31 (Ref:2647696)

Don't expect much from NASCAR...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

The impact of the wing I suspect was actually
pretty minimal, given how little downforce it's capable of making. The biggest issue is the the floor is higher behind the rear wheels, and slopes upward. That piece catches LOTS of air when the car is backward, and since it encompasses the rear overhang, this extra air packed in can pivot the car up and over the front axle.

Agree

paddy · 8 Mar 2010, 20:32 (Ref:2647698)

I'd ban Edwards for the rest of the season with a life ban if he ever repeats this kind of driving. Throughout recent years across motorsport huge efforts have been made to improve safety for drivers, spectators and marshals and then along comes an idiotic driver and DELIBERATELY causes a 190 mph accident. There is no place for it and I seriously wonder at the lack of intelligence required to think that what he did was in anyway acceptable.

dyewat808 · 8 Mar 2010, 20:41 (Ref:2647711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddy

I'd ban Edwards for the rest of the season with a life ban if he ever repeats this kind of driving. Throughout recent years across motorsport huge efforts have been made to improve safety for drivers, spectators and marshals and then along comes an idiotic driver and DELIBERATELY causes a 190 mph accident. There is no place for it and I seriously wonder at the lack of intelligence required to think that what he did was in anyway acceptable.

Totally agree. Deliberate crashing with intention has no place in motorsports, not even so-called "payback" at smaller tracks where it would "be safer". Motorsports IS dangerous - no one place would be better than any other!

Purist · 8 Mar 2010, 20:44 (Ref:2647716)

GTTouring, Carl Eddwards was the backmarker in this situation, NOT Brad. Carl was running somewhere 35th-39th, 156 laps down to the leaders, and Brad was in 4th or 5th, within a handful of seconds of the leader. Carl had no business running a lead lap car that hard, much less trying to punt him, and the commentators on FOX said as much.

duke_toaster · 8 Mar 2010, 21:06 (Ref:2647732)

Having reviewed the footage, the manoeuvre was on an echelon of blatant disregard for sportsmanship that is only inhabited by the likes Mike Tyson biting Evander Holyfield's ear and some of the eye gouging attempts in rugby. This is far worse than anything that Jason Plato or Matt Neal, the comedy villains of the BTCC, have attempted.

I think a fitting penalty would be a 12 month ban from all motorsport and a very significant fine. I am not a lawyer, and most certainly not a criminal lawyer in Georgia, but in certain countries (like Italy), there might even be criminal prosecutions.

broadrun96 · 8 Mar 2010, 21:33 (Ref:2647757)

Nascar has to look at the fact that the wreck and the believed retribution by most of the fans and media have become the story of the race. Racing can't really be considered the important part of your series if you allow the wrecks be the action on the track that everyone talks about. I'm afraid they want the story and will Brad take his revenge and when to become the story, just look at the ads for this season, 'Now the gloves are off.'

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