Advice...

[fraggs]

I'm hoping I'm posting this in the right place... and I'm hoping i don't get lynched... (as i've been lynched on a photography forum already for having a "basic" bog standard SLR with assorted lenses (my equipment is canon).

i've been shooting for 12 months now.. from the spectator area.. And I'd like to get in to motorsport photography.. As i'd not picked up a camera until last june, I've spent just about every weekend i can come rain, wind or shine in all weathers travelling to as many events as i can get to, to build up my work and just practice and see what developed.

I've been bugging a media group for a while now.. and they interviewed me back in march after seeing my portfolio, they were interested but said I'd need to get out of the spectator area. After the bgp the other week I sent some shots over just out of interest, and expecting nothing .. but the upshot is they've agreed to back me for applying for media passes for a few events just to start out.. the first application has gone off, and I don't know whether i will be lucky to get a media pass, or whether i'll be lucky for any of the other events that i want to do..

I will admit that that I'm a newbie finding her way in all this. But just incase a small miracle it does happen and i do end up with a pass.

I just wondered what advice, if any, you guys had to offer.

[David L]

Best pieces of advice I ever had..

1.. "may be a hundred photographers out here, only your set of eyes.."

2.. Although you need to have "something" about what you do, and certainly a good artist will make magic out of even the most basic of tools, quality of equipment will tell.. In other words, why make it hard on yourself.. In other, other words, why decline any advantage, however small..

3.. Be your own hardest critic.. When reviewing/selecting, I have been reminded of that line in the film Ronin.. "if there is doubt, there is no doubt"..

4.. Deliver to the brief, on time.. (not to what you think the brief is, nor what you think is an appropriate deadline.. ask.. clarify..)..

5.. "don't give up your day job..".. Actually.. this isn't a reference to how good you are, but one as to the state of the "pro" photo world..

These were all good pieces of advice to me.. Maybe they'll twang a chord with you.. and others reading...

What do I advise..?

a) be technically proficient.. understand photography and the tools we use.. how they work, what they do and "what happens if".. have some kind of theoretical background.. many of us older mob used to mess around in home darkrooms.. playing with film, chemicals and light.. Did have it's uses..

b) find your own space and style..

Nobody said it's easy.. but it's great when this stuff actually works....

Regards
David Lister

[badgerbaiter]

my advice - let us know which race you are doing and i'm sure someone on here will be there and happy to take you under their wing

[MikeHoyer]

Another bit of good advice is to realise that if you are hoping of doing it full time, there's more to it than just standing in front of the spectator fences at a race weekend. You'll probably find yourself doing some mediocre jobs from time to time... and som very long hours.

Have you got any specific plans as to where you'd like to be and what you want to be doing, in a years time for example?

[Piglet]

I'd echo "don't give up your day job" - sadly there isn't very much money to be made in this game.

Also - before giving away your work for free in an attempt to get "on the ladder" remember that whilst there are newbies giving away their work there will be no need to teams/mags etc. to buy work from pro's thus there will be no pro market for you to climb the ladder into.

What events interest you?

[fraggs]

thanks for the info guys..its really appreciated.

I wouldn't give up my day job anyway at the minute.. its the generous leave entitlement with that, which enables me to get out and do as many events as i can.. I get 54 days a year which is about to go up to 60 days when i "hopefully" start my new job.. That and I get a reasonable salary ish.. so i think thats a good basis to hold on to for me, for now.. and see what happens in the future.

I've done a lot of reading as well about the ins and outs, so i know there a very few full timers. i would love to cut it as a decent freelancer, but for now I just hope to get established with a view to being able to be in a position to upgrade my equipment as soon as i can.

in 12 months from now.. wow.. thats a question.. I'd love to have some credible experience under my belt, be in a position where my work is starting to get noticed and getting paid if my work is good enough (and I have read that motorsport photography is not the glamorous profession everyone thinks it is). I also know and from the reading that I've done on forums like this is what a hard slog it is, but also everyone has their own story of how they started too.

I don't know whether thats being too optimistic or not, but for now i just take each day as it comes and keep at it and see what happens next.

I've been back to college and done 12 months study as well actually learning about wet film and working in the darkrooms. Its been insightful and helped me learn more. I'm going back to college as well this Sept to do more studying to combine what I'm learning every weekend when I go out.

Since June last year my life has consisted working 5 days a week in my normal job, paying petrol and tickets to go to race events nearly every weekend. I've even gone to the extent of flying out to F1 testing in Barcelona to see what I could get out of that as well.

I got a copy of Photoshop CS2 (Student Edition) at the start of this year and I've been working on my skills (self taught) in that just about every night of the week as well when I come home from work. So i've put alot of effort in already, so to get where I have now to be in a position where someone is backing me for media passes, I'd like to think I've done well in achieving this in such a short space of time which sees me working nearly 24/7..

As for piglet's question about events. being new, i've tried not to limit myself so even though I've been shooting from the spectator area, I've gone to a variety of events at all different levels from club level right through to f1.. and my bank account has a hole in it at the minute as at the bgp someone offered me hospitality for £125 on the sat.. How could i say no, when the view from their box was over the pitlane right where the guys hit the rev limiter. i saw it as an opportunity to get somewhere were i ordinarily wouldn't get to set foot in. that and i also sacrificed the last 15 mins of quali to bag a position near the paddock entrance/exit to see who i could capture after quali finished.

The whole point of me doing this, was being new, I wanted to see what the difference is/was and as a result I've also been to donington, snetterton, brands, santa pod, silverstone, and done goodwood fos twice. I've also been and got myself up to MPH, the motorshow at the Exel centre last july (when I'd literally stepped off a plane from the US the day before so was jetlagged as anything), Autosport International and did the F1 Great design race.

At this point, I'd say anything interests me, be it two or four wheel and whatever level.. And I'm not just saying that. It seriously does, i see it as a challenge especially if its a race category i've not shot before.. Ok I've been an F1 armchair fan since I was 15 and had little appreciation for other forms of motorsport, but since last June, my view has changed.. and if there's an event on at the weekend i try and make it.

i mean the last four weeks, I've done BGP f1 test, then straight on to goodwood fos, then went to the bgp and then i went to the honda factory open day..

I spent a good time on the phone last night and aload of things fell in to place, so I've now got the forms and contacts i need for brands, and i had a good chat with rockingham for the event i wanted to do there, i know what i need to do at silverstone (I've already done the first one there, which if i'm lucky could mean i get to be there at the end of this month) and then there's one where I've got to go through the event organiser rather than the circuit. ..so i just need to get on applying for those now and seeing what happens.

[MikeHoyer]

Well that sounds like a great start anyway! Good luck.

If you need advice about any particular circuits, or anything else about applying etc., let me know. I do this full time, so I like to think I have some idea what I'm on about...

[bella]

Originally Posted by fraggs

Since June last year my life has consisted working 5 days a week in my normal job, paying petrol and tickets to go to race events nearly every weekend. I've even gone to the extent of flying out to F1 testing in Barcelona to see what I could get out of that as well.

i think that there is the life story of a lot of people on this forum

absolutely good on you for having a good plan and working at your skills as much as you can. people starting out usually forget to learn about the technical side of things like darkrooms and processing real film, but it gives such a good idea of how to improve or manipulate pictures. you're ten steps ahead of a lot of the people in a similar position already just from that, so good luck!

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by bella

i think that there is the life story of a lot of people on this forum

Ahhh good, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking "and" at this point

That's the way this world is, you work all work and then spend money to get somewhere at weekends and then (in my case at least) get back to your desk on Monday morning knackered but trying to make out you're competent to do your day job

[JurekB]

I'm in much the same position as fraggs to be honest in that I'm currently spectator side and although I think I'd like to be trackside I'm not convinced it's the way forward.

I started shooting at around the age of 10, had my own darkroom by age 12, at 15 shot my first race meeting, by 20 I'd completed a photography BTEC, for 2 years after that I was working freelance shooting music until my bank manager demanded I pay back my student overdraft. So I got the dreaded 'proper job' and didn't look back until about 7 years ago when I thought I'd get back into it and landed a job as a 'photographic surveyor' of all things. Unfortunately the photographic skills required were negligable and today all I do is take snaps with a 100 quid P&S. The money and hours are both great but I would really like to get back to 'proper' photography so for the last 12months I've been shooting away getting used to this new fangled digital business. I love motorsport so decided to combine the two as I'm too old to cope with 'more ego than talent' rockstars, so here I am.

Since the start of the season I've sold a few pictures and even had a responce from Autosport regarding some rather cool shots I took, but I don't for the life of me see how I could make a living out of it on it's own. It seems to me the only way forward is to have a varied portfolio, so motorsport at the weekend, football in the evenings and something else during the week.

Ultimately my goal is to get out shooting, ditch the day job and be my own boss again and I see motorsport to be maybe 20% of that.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Ahhh good, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking "and" at this point

That's the way this world is, you work all work and then spend money to get somewhere at weekends and then (in my case at least) get back to your desk on Monday morning knackered but trying to make out you're competent to do your day job

i've been busted by my day job, they keep asking me to cover weekends, and i keep carefully pointing out i can't check depot deliveries during a race while i'm holding a camera and pretending to be important

errr back on topic!

[David L]

fraggs..

I seem to recall that this topic, in some form or other, comes up every year or so.. also, many on here have documented their progress in these pages at some point.. and so it strikes me that an interesting exercise may be to do a spot of searching through these archives to see how different people have progressed and things have changed for them over the years..

Be lucky..

[DWA]

Originally Posted by MikeHoyer

I do this full time, so I like to think I have some idea what I'm on about...

You sure Mike!



I would add that if you are at a track you have not been to before, ask if they have any specific do's and dont's whilst trackside. I have assisted several people in my 30 + years doing this and they have often found it usefull to be shown around on first day at a new track. Or at least have a look around before using a camera. Also ask our orange clad friends, if in doubt, as they probably have seen some daft things before.

[MikeHoyer]

And done some...

[fraggs]

Originally Posted by MikeHoyer

Well that sounds like a great start anyway! Good luck.

If you need advice about any particular circuits, or anything else about applying etc., let me know. I do this full time, so I like to think I have some idea what I'm on about...

thanks.. the posts you guys have written I have valued reading.. and i'll search the forum as david suggested for previous topics on this subject.

piglet.. i'm glad i'm not the only one that arrives back knackered on a monday morning.. but knowing whats coming up in each future weekend i find i wish monday was already friday again..

bella.. as for being busted by my day job.. even though i've been shooting as a spectator. it didn't stop me from booking all my leave that I've had over the last four weeks before the christmas holidays. as i sent my diary notifications out for june and july and for some other events that I'd planned on going to through out the year. I think i booked in about 10 dates in one go, one of my colleagues as he accepted the notifications muttered from behind his screen, "are we slightly busy this coming summer" . My only regret is that I didn't post in Le Mans as I got made to work around then. I'm already plotting next summer's leave now so I don't make that mistake again.

dwa.. you've hit the nail on the head.. this is what i was looking for.. if everything goes to plan and i'm lucky with my applications then i'll end up at brands, silverstone, rockingham and donington - between now and november and in the case of silverstone and brands maybe more than once (but this is banking on my applications being accepted or however the system works, I don't know at this stage as i've only just sent my first application off on monday)..

With the exception of Rockingham, which i've never been to, all the other tracks I've attended as a spectator.. so have some knowledge, but thats knowing where to go to shoot from the spectators area.

I think the thing for me is that i don't want to make a complete tit of myself the first time I do get a pass, and having made it "the other side" of the fence while I want to get really good work done, at the same time I don't want to be a liability to others out there.

[KC]

A few simple things from a guy who shoots a little motorsport and a lot of youth sports all year long...

1. Find and wear a very comfortable and waterproof pair of shoes. You will be spending so much of your time slogging around and merely standing that even a mediocre pair of shoes will kill you. Found this out the hard way shooting youth football for 16 hours straight. A good hat goes a long way too.

2. Make a kit bag for simple yet important things such as insect repellant, sunblock, spare batteries, lens clothes, water bottle and pen/paper. Sunburns and a 1000 mosquito bites do not a fun afternoon make.

3. Make a checklist for all the gear you need to take and do an audit to make sure its all in your bag before you leave. Its not a lot of fun to arrive at the venue and have only the 1GB card in the camera because you forgot to pick them up at your computer desk before leaving home. Same with batteries.

4. I invested in a Creative Labs Zen Vision W to download images to to free up cards while I shoot. Best $275 bucks I've spent in a long time, 60 GB drive, built in CF slot, huge 6" screen to show off images to potential clients and room for beaucoup music and video as well. The Zen can empty a 4GB CF card in about 7 minutes. Battery will last longer than I can in a day.

Advice on shooting..

1. Everyone has seen the same 3/4 angle shot of every car or bike in the same turn a thousand times. Do not be afraid to seek out different locations than where all the other shooters are. Practice and practice your panning skills and then practice them some more. Remember, some action does not look as good completely frozen in time. An LMP or touring car in the middle of the track shot so fast that the wheels are frozen looks like it is parked there and not racing and has little drama. The same car with one tire off track and a cloud of dust looks incredible frozen in time as the drama is not the car but how it is composed in its environment. Rally cars on dirt look awesome frozen with a fast shutter because of all the dirt flying. Drama in your shot makes it a sellable image.

2. Don't continually chimp your images. If you stop to admire your handiwork, then your not shooting and you get paid to shoot. Chimp a little at the beginning to make sure your camera is working correctly and your exposure is right on.

3. I would also suggest to learn to shoot manual. You should retain control of the camera, far too many times even high end SLR meters get fooled by sudden glares from from the windscreen of a passing car and drastically underexpose an image. It may seem daunting at first, but it will become second nature. You will become a better shooter for it.

4. Shoot relentlessly. Cull images ruthlessly in post processing. Do not submit subpar images to an editor. Expect high loss rates when you begin. It will get better and so will you. Do not keep subpar images, a 250Gb drive is easy to fill up, make sure its with really superb images and not a bunch of poorly exposed or soft focussed images.

5. Have fun and make contacts. Pass out business cards and be polite and professional. So much about this kind of work is by word-of-mouth and influential friends sure make a portfolio look better.

[James North]

May I add to the discussion that it's also a very good idea to take some kind of water protection, not only for yourself, but also for your equipment, especially if your lens is not weather sealed.

I did a fair amount of damage to my gear at Le Mans. both bodies stopped working for quite a while, although both made a full recovery. The battery grip for my 20D still has not recovered, so I had to get a replacement, and also the AF on my Sigma 70-200mm stopped working during the rain, and only in the last couple of days re started.

So it's probably a good idea to invest a small amount into providing weather protection for equipment, because in the long run it could save quite a lot of money.

[Piglet]

Practical advice #42 - don't ever (and I mean EVER) lean on a piece of armco barrier next to a live track. If something goes in some distance away you'll still get the shockwave from it.

[badgerbaiter]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Practical advice #42 - don't ever (and I mean EVER) lean on a piece of armco barrier next to a live track. If something goes in some distance away you'll still get the shockwave from it.

i never actually knew that.. will keep that in mind myself

[Aysedasi]

As a complete amateur who will always be that - lots of good advice and a good thread indeed. So good luck to you fraggs......

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Practical advice #42 - don't ever (and I mean EVER) lean on a piece of armco barrier next to a live track. If something goes in some distance away you'll still get the shockwave from it.

You learn something every day!

(Mind you, the last time I leant on armco was just around the corner from Tertre Rouge at Le Mans in 1991........ )

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by badgerbaiter

i never actually knew that.. will keep that in mind myself

Now you know why marshals don't (or shouldn't) lean against the barrier!!!!!!

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by badgerbaiter

i never actually knew that.. will keep that in mind myself

Really? Have you never wondered where the energy goes when a car hits a barrier?

I can't remember who it is but I'm sure there's a story about someone kneeling on some barrier who got his kneecap badly damaged when something when in some distance from him.

[Aysedasi]

It's so obvious when you say it like that..........

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It's so obvious when you say it like that..........