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Old 25 Jan 2010, 02:06 (Ref:2618878)   #26
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Originally Posted by JAG View Post
Miller's start/finish straight gives it charactor IMO.

Add a dozen P1's and runnning into the dark, I think you'd have a classic on your hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRXu...eature=related

This is a business, not a fantasy la la land. Miller doesn't draw. End of discussion and fantasy.
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 15:21 (Ref:2619174)   #27
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The encroaching development at Road Atlanta really makes you wonder what the future is there. Sebring even now has encroaching development.

I would say Sebring holds on because of fame/name/tradition if all goes bad and the ALMS or whatever stops. I would hate to see it with Grand Am, actually preferring NASA or something else like that. Something inspiring.

All this talk is making me fear for road racing's future in America beyond club only tracks, rovals and street courses.

robert -growing glum.
I don't think there will be any new developments in Braselton for quite some time. That area has been hit hard by the bust and gas prices and has some rough years ahead of it. Hell, they built two neighborhoods in ten years (a third had infrastructure in place and was abandoned three years ago), and a few gas stations and fast food resturants near the highway. Hardly a real estate boom.
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 17:07 (Ref:2619232)   #28
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This is a business, not a fantasy la la land. Miller doesn't draw. End of discussion and fantasy.
Perhaps it's time to look at sportscar series that work, there's even one that uses those dreadful ACO regs.

While we are at it, why aren't the sportscar press reporting much, if anything, about the ALMS's troubles?
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 17:13 (Ref:2619239)   #29
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The encroaching development at Road Atlanta really makes you wonder what the future is there.

robert -growing glum.
Seems to me that real estate development was part of the original plan of Road Atlanta when they built it and that the original developers (IMSA entrants themselves) owned a condo on the back straight themselves and were encouraging other developers to come in and build houses and condos. Am I just delusional or am I remembering correctly?

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Old 25 Jan 2010, 21:22 (Ref:2619381)   #30
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Perhaps it's time to look at sportscar series that work, there's even one that uses those dreadful ACO regs.

While we are at it, why aren't the sportscar press reporting much, if anything, about the ALMS's troubles?

Which current sportscars series is drawing large fan bases at it's venues, has large manufacturer participation and has strong revenues?

The press has reported the ALMS troubles and challenges. You will find that it is very difficult for credentialed press, or those in the press who depend on organizations for revenues to be very critical of those organizations. This is true for many sports, including the ALMS.
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 21:28 (Ref:2619387)   #31
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Just like why you don't see negative new car reviews in your local newspaper.
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 22:02 (Ref:2619409)   #32
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IMO you should run events on a budget like the LMS, enthusiasts will still turn-up.

Offer a platform with low entry costs, the LMS has prospered as there have always been new teams to replace those who've left.

With such privateer focused national series in place, you can accomodate manufactuers and ambitious privateers with the LMIC, ensuring Sebring, PLM, Silverstone etc. remain world class events with huge fan and media interest.

You have to be pragmatic, I don't believe we'll see manufactuers commit to full factory programs in national series, they want to pick and choose the best events the world over.
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Old 25 Jan 2010, 23:47 (Ref:2619458)   #33
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You have to be pragmatic, I don't believe we'll see manufactuers commit to full factory programs in national series, they want to pick and choose the best events the world over.
If you build an very strong national series (you would agree that was ALMS aim?), then it has the attraction for the manufacturers, strong private teams, series sponsors, etc. The factory teams wouldn't then pick and choose.

The Can-Am series certainly had world attention, but I would accept that those were indeed different times.

It is interesting that Pug has come to Sebring and Petit, which are geographically in a market they haven't sold cars in for decades (are Peugeot sold in Canada, I honestly don't know, or Mexico), and even when they did they were a blip in the market place. They came because those events are International status-interesting also because both are the wrong time zone for Europe or Asia.
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 01:02 (Ref:2619477)   #34
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IMO you should run events on a budget like the LMS, enthusiasts will still turn-up.

Offer a platform with low entry costs, the LMS has prospered as there have always been new teams to replace those who've left.

With such privateer focused national series in place, you can accomodate manufactuers and ambitious privateers with the LMIC, ensuring Sebring, PLM, Silverstone etc. remain world class events with huge fan and media interest.

You have to be pragmatic, I don't believe we'll see manufactuers commit to full factory programs in national series, they want to pick and choose the best events the world over.
I don't believe that you understand the sport, it's history, or it's business side in North America. During the PSCR era, the fan attendance was a fraction of what it is today. Run an amateur series, and it will drop in popularity a great deal. Attendance wouldn't be much different than it is for most of the Grand Am races.

Manufacturers have committed to factory backed programs in the Continental Series. BMW, Corvette(GM), Porsche, Acura and Mazda are all examples of manufacturers who in the last couple of years have had "Continental" backing. They want exposure where they sell cars.

Could you please provide the evidence that you have, that all these manufacturers want to pick and choose the best events the world over? Link please? Do you believe Grand Am will cede LMIC, allowing their marquee events to be part of it?
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 01:03 (Ref:2619478)   #35
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(are Peugeot sold in Canada
No, Peugeot are not sold in Canada.
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 01:45 (Ref:2619495)   #36
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Thanks, I didn't think so.
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 16:34 (Ref:2619752)   #37
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If you build an very strong national series (you would agree that was ALMS aim?), then it has the attraction for the manufacturers, strong private teams, series sponsors, etc. The factory teams wouldn't then pick and choose.

The Can-Am series certainly had world attention, but I would accept that those were indeed different times.

It is interesting that Pug has come to Sebring and Petit, which are geographically in a market they haven't sold cars in for decades (are Peugeot sold in Canada, I honestly don't know, or Mexico), and even when they did they were a blip in the market place. They came because those events are International status-interesting also because both are the wrong time zone for Europe or Asia.
I can sit down on a Saturday lunchtime and watch the whole of the Sebring 12hrs live, I'll do the same for PLM, a European audience will watch these events, hence Peugeot will turn-up.

IMSA GTP prospered because North American distrbuters funded the factory efforts, TWR Jaguar didn't pull out of the WSC to move to IMSA for example.

However if Audi commited to a full ALMS season they'd not run in the LMS, so you either find a compromise to keep a factory presence in both series (LMIC), or it's survival of the fittest.

It's also worth pointing out after the 1998 FIA GT1 series, many European fans of that series switched allegiance to the ALMS, rather than what was left of FIA GT's and the FIA SCC.

Once the LMS began much interest switched to that series.
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 16:58 (Ref:2619780)   #38
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Does Laurence Tomlinson still own the Panoz rights in the UK?
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 20:52 (Ref:2619930)   #39
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Does Laurence Tomlinson still own the Panoz rights in the UK?
Dont think so - he owns Ginetta (Zytek) now. Wouldnt make sense to sell products that compete with your own
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Old 26 Jan 2010, 23:12 (Ref:2620020)   #40
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I can sit down on a Saturday lunchtime and watch the whole of the Sebring 12hrs live, I'll do the same for PLM, a European audience will watch these events, hence Peugeot will turn-up.
I highly doubt Peugeot will show for PLM. There is no valid reason to do so.

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However if Audi commited to a full ALMS season they'd not run in the LMS, so you either find a compromise to keep a factory presence in both series (LMIC), or it's survival of the fittest..
You mean like in 2007, when Audi ran in both the LMS and ALMS? Has there been an official statement from Audi since then, that specifically states they would never run in both the ALMS and LMS again simultaneously? Link?
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Old 27 Jan 2010, 08:51 (Ref:2620179)   #41
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Dont think so - he owns Ginetta (Zytek) now. Wouldnt make sense to sell products that compete with your own
I'm sure that when he took on Ginetta, he still had Panoz then. Don't really think that Panoz road cars compete with Ginettas - different types of cars really.
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Old 27 Jan 2010, 18:23 (Ref:2620477)   #42
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I highly doubt Peugeot will show for PLM. There is no valid reason to do so.
Only due to them diverting funds to their 2011 car, otherwise they'd more than likely be on the grid.

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You mean like in 2007, when Audi ran in both the LMS and ALMS? Has there been an official statement from Audi since then, that specifically states they would never run in both the ALMS and LMS again simultaneously? Link?
It was 2008, and the exception to the rule.

The LMS has been running since 2005, only 2008 can rank up alongside the best WSC Group C seasons. Sadder still, both Audi and Peugeot have had full factory teams for much of that time, yet rarely went head to head outside of the classics.

The LMS has served it's purpose for privateers, for that reason alone it is very important. Manufactuers however have all sampled it, but wound back their support after a season or two, it obviously does not work for them.

During 2008 Peugeot had national newspaper campaigns advertising their battles with Audi in the LMS, and promted the Silverstone race massively.

Last year they could only bank on Le Mans, other events were added so late in the day there was little time to structure major campaigns. Tying these events together via the LMIC not only solves that problem, there's a PR worthy 'World' title at the end of it.

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Adrian Fernandez is closing on a deal to race a works-run Aston Martin Racing LMP1 coupe in a short programme of American Le Mans Series races, this week's AUTOSPORT magazine reveals. His Aston programme would likely encompass the blue riband ALMS races at Sebring, Long Beach and Road Atlanta's Petit Le Mans, as well as the Le Mans 24 Hours.
The above is another example of manufactuers and teams picking and choosing events, it will be another ALMS season where a handful of races garner all of the attention.

Last edited by JAG; 27 Jan 2010 at 18:35.
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Old 27 Jan 2010, 18:28 (Ref:2620480)   #43
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Fernandez's entry (if it happens) is not a manufacturer entry. When you have a limited budget, you are not "picking and choosing", but being forced to select which events you can afford to do.

Regarding Audi, as what I thought, just your opinion, nothing factual. You are entitled to an opinion of course. It is somewhat puzzling that you've taken your opinion about Audi, and somehow managed to project that on all manufacturers as if some grand statement had been made, when they never had.
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Old 27 Jan 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2620492)   #44
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Why are we having this discussion in the "Carl Haas takes over distribution of Panoz race cars and parts" thread?

Ten of the last 12 posts have been about manufacturers racing in LMS, ALMS LMIC, or whatever...which has ZERO to do with the subject of this thread.

Please stay on topic...carry on the LMIC argument in the LMIC Thread, please...
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 04:05 (Ref:2620760)   #45
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Anyone think that Panoz might be ready and willing to sell at least part of the race and road car businesses as it seems that they're money pits and are diverting money and attention that could be better used on the ALMS and the rest of IMSA?
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 04:53 (Ref:2620774)   #46
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I'm sure that when he took on Ginetta, he still had Panoz then. Don't really think that Panoz road cars compete with Ginettas - different types of cars really.
Then again, I don't think Panoz are selling like hot cakes in Europe either. Panoz has made approximately 550 road cars in total since 1992...

220 Roadsters and 320ish Esperantes
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