Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 Sep 2018, 07:35 (Ref:3848442)   #1
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 31,655
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Professional Historic Racers

When the Goodwood Revival started there were a smattering of professional or ex professional racers, in fact very few of the then current BTCC/GT etc. racers attended in any guise other than spectators.

Now, as with the Member's Meeting, it appears that most of the drivers are paid professionals, or they have bought/built the cars and run them, sharing with other professionals. E.g. the Jordan team.

Even the Silverstone Classic is becoming more of a professional event rather than the Classic/Historic club racing festival that it was originally.

It is perhaps a sign of the times, that with the complexity of modern cars, the freshness of normal power trains and ancient suspension systems is attracting those who can race. Or is it that the value of these cars is consistently increasing and thus good business can be had?

All of which, in my opinion, will reduce the input of the amateur racer, such as myself, since; a, it is increasingly difficult to compete; and b, the costs for entry are becoming too excessive. As an example, my Rover, in Tiff Needell's hands was third on the grid at the 73MM. Now we struggle to get 6th! The others have been developed beyond what I can really do. I do know what we need. But, should I have to do that in order to compete?

So, what to do? Well for me the Spa Classics and 6hrs meetings don't appear to be suffering from the influx of the professionals, so I can see more folks going back to those events and leaving the bigger festivals. Probably a good thing?

By the way I have to say that when racing against the professionals I've been treated with respect and haven't suffered any damage due to their driving standards so I've no complaints in that respect.

Thoughts?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 08:23 (Ref:3848452)   #2
apriliadriver
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United Kingdom
Ruislip, Middx
Posts: 221
apriliadriver should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Peter,
You make a very good point. When I started club historic racing mumblety-peg decades ago one accepted that there was the normal spectrum of skill on the grid - some who had raced their cars in the contemporary period when they were new, and some like,say, Martin Stretton, Willie Green and Simon Hadfield who possess a superb sense of balance, control and speed in the wet or dry. I guess the common feature was that no-one was paying them to race.
About a decade after I started saw the advent of youngsters racing their father's car - this at a time when a club grid was old cars and old drivers. And the kids were quick.
Then in the early 2000s organisers started to invite professionals to share the owner's car ... was it the Revival or Silverstone Classic that started that trend ? At the Revival I was paired up with an ex-BTCC professional and became much more aware of the gulf between the professional and all but a few club historic racers.
Now, as the cars are worth more and the owners tend to come from a different shelf in the wealth shop, pay drivers - particularly at prestige meetings - are a standard feature. And even in club racing, owners are turning up with the big-rig and two full-time engineers to support them. Not to even mention the development arms race.



Two observations : I could not now afford to buy any of the cars I have raced over the last 30 years; and while change is inevitable, 'club historic racing' as we used to define it (cheapish and cheerful motor sport) is gradually evaporating. I am sorry to see it go as I enjoyed it so much.
Nick
apriliadriver is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 14:44 (Ref:3848492)   #3
coppice
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Australia
Thirsk, North Yorkshire
Posts: 313
coppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridcoppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridcoppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There is a wider issue, too, especially in FJunior, and even more so , in FF1600. Modern single seater racing is rare; we have -

- no F.Renault

- a lame F3

- the quick but achingly tedious Formula Ford Ecoboost /F4 /whatever it is called this week



It is also stupidly expensive , has poor grids and cars that depreciate. So it is no surprise that there are now plenty of young, fast and not very well off drivers in FF1600 especially. It does mean some of the older stagers are now outpaced , but that is a price worth paying for the sustainability of the series . And it provides for wonderful racing.



Goodwood is sui generis really , and such is its profile that it was inevitable that superstar drivers and hot rod cars would become ubiquitous. But take a typical HSCC or CSCC meeting and things are much saner , and people like Needell , Attwood and Watts (et al )seem to rub along fine with 'civilians ' .
coppice is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 15:16 (Ref:3848495)   #4
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 31,655
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by coppice View Post
Goodwood is sui generis really , and such is its profile that it was inevitable that superstar drivers and hot rod cars would become ubiquitous. But take a typical HSCC or CSCC meeting and things are much saner , and people like Needell , Attwood and Watts (et al )seem to rub along fine with 'civilians ' .
Yes, whilst Goodwood is the stand out, my point was more that the other events; MRL; HSCC etc. are now attracting the star drivers to the extent that the amateurs are being sidelined. As to hot rods, I wasn't thinking in those terms just that development is becoming the norm rather than the exception and it is expensive to keep up.

In my case my car is built to the exact specification, in which it ran in period. However in period you could run other bits as long as they were homologated under the Blue Book of the period. My car and at least three others of the same model did not run, what every Rover, other than mine, is running now, even though it was homologated.

This is not a complaint since I know what to do to make my car a bit more competitive and stay within the rules of "as it was run in period", but because the major teams are getting involved the level of prep has gone up. Even I need a support team for my car.

Should have added: Yes Patrick W, Tim H, Tiff and the others are always pleasant and generally polite on track.

Last edited by Peter Mallett; 6 Sep 2018 at 15:28.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 15:48 (Ref:3848501)   #5
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Bedfordshire almost in Pakistan
Posts: 3,926
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I am not disputing anything posted here, but I do feel that the term professional is a little unfair in the cases discussed, while they may be paid, and may even make a living out of it, most are simply very successful versions of yourselves. Most names can be found in old club race programmes, before featuring in international events, just enthusiastic racers initially.


Professional for me means those 'bred from birth' to be racing drivers, Hamilton, Rosberg, Stroll etc.

Just a personal opinion not trying to introduce any dis harmony into things.


Bauble.
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 15:56 (Ref:3848504)   #6
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 31,655
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Ok, paid drivers then. Or drivers who had a career as paid drivers in top championships. In some cases such as Andrew Jordan etc. they are currently racing in the BTCC so yes, professional racing drivers.

No doubt they have upped the spectacle and indeed they are very good.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 17:25 (Ref:3848513)   #7
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 3,510
VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Ok, paid drivers then. Or drivers who had a career as paid drivers in top championships. In some cases such as Andrew Jordan etc. they are currently racing in the BTCC so yes, professional racing drivers.

No doubt they have upped the spectacle and indeed they are very good.
Hi Peter. I'm not trying to be confrontational or to turn your question against you but I personally feel that using current professional drivers is only a short step away from using previous professional drivers such as Tim Harvey, Patrick Watts and a certain Mr Needell
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2018, 17:38 (Ref:3848519)   #8
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 31,655
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yes indeed. My point.kd more that by going all the way it's moved the game into the prefessional rather than amateur realm.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 09:47 (Ref:3848624)   #9
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Bedfordshire almost in Pakistan
Posts: 3,926
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Thoughts Peter?

Both The Revival, and the Classic are now big commercial ventures relying on attracting a big crowd of paying punters, and in order to get the 'casual fan' to buy a ticket there has to be something more than enthusiastic amateurs driving.

I doubt if the average BTCC fan would be attracted to a simple historic meeting, but names like Jordan, Neal, et al will probably pull them in, likewise he F1 fans would be attracted by Button, Berger etc. I suspect that only the genuine 'historic fans' would be attracted by the cars themselves.

In order to run a historic meeting you need historic cars and that is where people like yourself come in. You have the car, but, and no disrespect intended, you are not a huge attraction, therefore the Pro/Am nature of much of the racing.

Anyway in the case of Goodwood it's the 'It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want to' syndrome.

I used to enjoy the original Mulberry Historic Meetings, proper job, but that has morphed into todays 'Silverstone Classic Festival'.
I think it is called progress.

It is a shame that the racing can not be separated from the ballyhoo aspects of these events, so it is the live feed for me.

I hope you have a happy and successful meeting, so give us a wave as you pass the cameras.

Cheers,

Bob. Couch Potato.
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 10:54 (Ref:3848634)   #10
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 10,863
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Spot on Bob. Sadly names such as Peter Mallett, Iain Rowley and Mike Bell are hardly attractive to an event PR team. Can’t think why.....

There are an increasing number of wealthy ‘gentlemen drivers’ employing a professional to co-drive their car, which makes it doubly satisfying if you can beat them! The difficult bit is when a company like JDC employ them to solo drive a car, but think that particular scenario is over- maybe.....
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 11:34 (Ref:3848639)   #11
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Bedfordshire almost in Pakistan
Posts: 3,926
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
[QUOTE][Iain Rowley and Mike Bell/QUOTE]

Who?
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 11:44 (Ref:3848642)   #12
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 10,863
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
[QUOTE=bauble;3848639]
Quote:
[Iain Rowley and Mike Bell/QUOTE]

Who?
Apparently Mike Bell is Ďan occasional Morgan driverí, according to some journo writing in Morgan Miscellany magazine this month, but I think I know what he meant....
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 12:40 (Ref:3848654)   #13
Alan Crook
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Silverstone
Posts: 773
Alan Crook should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Sadly names such as Peter Mallett, Iain Rowley and Mike Bell are hardly attractive to an event PR team.
Mike I think all the names you mention are infamous rather than famous !!!!!!!!!!
Alan Crook is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 12:47 (Ref:3848657)   #14
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
Paris area
Posts: 1,206
Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Certainly some of your meetings are getting more and more professional. In France, the situation is that we're still waiting for some mechanics becoming pros! How far we stand from you, can't believe itÖ

I think Peter can turn his car to injection without changing his HTP's first page to stay competitive. He can then re-convert it to what it used to be, a piece of history.
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Official # 3 of the intimidating SoF club founded by Bauble.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.Oscar Wilde.
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2018, 13:24 (Ref:3848666)   #15
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 31,655
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Spot on Bob. Sadly names such as Peter Mallett, Iain Rowley and Mike Bell are hardly attractive to an event PR team. Canít think why.....
Indeed. Although watching the revival here at my desk, they keep showing my off in this year's 76MM!
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Real Professional Racing Teams? dwk National & International Single Seaters 5 2 May 2002 17:05
James Allen under professional commentary coaching Select Formula One 13 4 Jul 2001 06:02
too professional racer69 Australasian Touring Cars. 17 14 Jun 2001 13:36
S.V .as professional as usual!!!!! gp19 Formula One 4 17 Mar 2001 20:17


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 00:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.