[WEC] Ginetta LMP1

[TF110]

It still is a good idea. If Toyota runs into trouble there's a good chance for any other lmp1 team to win Le Mans. Even if they don't, anything can happen and someone like Ginetta could win. On pace, they need bespoke tires and more development then I think they'll be right there with Toyota.

[chernaudi]

I'm sorry my friend, but I have to sort of disagree with you to an extent there. I understand where you're coming from, now that LMP1 is largely a BOP class and the LMP1 privateers still, to the best of my knowledge, don't have bespoke privateer spec tires. Also, at the Shanghai promoter's test the ACO did, Rebellion and SMP did get reasonably close to Toyota, even during the race weekend practice sessions as well.

However, that all being said, Sebring also showed that there's still a lot of ground to cover to truly to get the privateers truly up to par with Toyota/TMG. Who else usually dominated Sebring in a similar fashion pretty much every time they unloaded? Audi Sport. And there's many parallels between the Audi and Toyota dominance at Sebring.

Audi Sport had a factory backed, factory developed car, as did TMG/TGR. And a track like Sebring has a tendency to reveal any flaws or shortcomings a car or team can have. Much like the Audi R8 back in the day, the TS050 is just simply so refined by now and has so many little tweaks and details that add up to a dominant whole. You can't just say it's the hybrid system, or that TMG has like a $100 million dollar budget that far outstrips what Rebellion and SMP can muster or that the privateer teams are currently stuck using Toyota spec tires. It's the whole package.

It's what Toyota are doing with their budget. It's the fact that Toyota Motorsport GmbH have so many world class technological and R&D resources literally at their fingertips. It's that they have the backing of one of the world's biggest car manufacturers and one of the world's biggest industrial and tech conglomerates. It's that they have all the right people at the right places, including simply some of the cleverest minds in motorsport.

They've got the tech, the people, the skill and the ability to do some amazing things, and the ways and means to do it, and they're using it and doing it. That applies to every team that's dominated sports car racing or any other sport in general. You can't just begrudge them for doing what they're supposed to be doing with all of that.

On the subject of Ginetta, they were probably always on the back foot compared to Rebellion or SMP. Long story short (and I've already told a yarn here), if they couldn't keep up with the likes of Rebellion or SMP, just imagine the leap it would take to take on Toyota.

[Akrapovic]

Nobody will run the Ginetta LMP1 for the same reasons nobody wants to run the Ginetta LMP3, and why everyone moaned about the state of that LMP3. And the "P2" G56 or whatever branding it has now, and how it just used old Jaguar road car parts.

[Tique]

Originally Posted by joeb

In the interview of this on the Marshall Pruett podcast Lawrence told Graham that the major hurdle for them running the cars themselves at Spa was the fines the WEC is imposing for missing rounds.

It reminds me the good old eighties when the FIA killed the WEC by imposing to the teams to run at all the races of the championship. What a waste. I understand that giving them the opportunity to run at Le Mans will not be fair but giving them the opportunity to run at Spa just to show the potential of the car, why not !

[chernaudi]

I'll say this: Lawrence Tomlinson has sure burned some bridges over the years and has ticked off some people he probably shouldn't have in the world of road racing.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Tique

It reminds me the good old eighties when the FIA killed the WEC by imposing to the teams to run at all the races of the championship. What a waste. I understand that giving them the opportunity to run at Le Mans will not be fair but giving them the opportunity to run at Spa just to show the potential of the car, why not !

Things like this are also the reason we see micro grids everywhere

Spa 1000km used to get 50 plus car grids only few years ago

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Things like this are also the reason we see micro grids everywhere

Spa 1000km used to get 50 plus car grids only few years ago

It was also fun seeing which local entries would turn up. But in todays climate that might be a bit harder. There aren't many GTE cars around, so you'd have to look at GT3s...and that way BoP lies.

[TF110]

Understand that they want to have cars run in the series and not pick and choose to run where they want. You'd get small fields imo that would not be as big or appealing as the ones that are here today. I bet 50 cars would be ready to go for Spa and Silverstone, but you'd get like 10 for Bahrain. Now that just won't fly these days. Seriously though, you make a commitment, keep it. If you can't then don't complain about the consequences.

[ApexTurtle]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Things like this are also the reason we see micro grids everywhere

Spa 1000km used to get 50 plus car grids only few years ago

What is a micro grid? ~38 cars is pretty good, although a few more LMP2 cars would be nice.

[Graham Goodwin]

What we typically have is smaller but far more stable full season grids for many Championships - Yes the numbers at peak are sometimes (but not always) less.

What should also be considered is that in the era of GT3 and GT4 we have WAY more international level races and Series than 10-20 years ago - my estimate is probably 3 times more.

Add IGTC plus all of the World Challenge SRO stuff in Asia and Europe, Asian Le Mans - significantly stronger national GT level racing in a number of markets - including emerging markets like China, multiple national Championships in several markets - much of that has muddied the waters.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

I bet 50 cars would be ready to go for Spa and Silverstone, but you'd get like 10 for Bahrain.

If you got grids like that, wouldn't it be quite telling of where people actually wish to run...

[tux]

Call me a cynic but we have heard it all before so many times in sportscar racing that ill believe them when its out on track turning laps.

[LC2guy]

Still trying ...........

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-aero/4374986/

[ApexTurtle]

It's actually running in the test, at least. That's not something it has done much of, even before the funding issues started it never really ran before Spa FP1. Someone might still buy the thing for next season.

[broadrun96]

I think it would be a tough sell UNLESS the ACO realizes they've made a brown mess of things and need to postpone new regs. Otherwise a team would get what 1, maybe 2 seasons out of an underdeveloped car, purely relative the hours on track the Rebellion and SMP/BR Engineering have under their belt.

[ApexTurtle]

3 seasons, last I heard. Next one and then the first two seasons of the 'hypercar' thing.

[S griffin]

Well they are testing, so that’s a good start. They certainly have it in them to return

[Aysedasi]

What have they done to it? It looks butt-ugly. Is that just the bland grey colour scheme doing that?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

What have they done to it? It looks butt-ugly. Is that just the bland grey colour scheme doing that?

Did they have to redo bodywork to make the new motor fit?

[Deleted]

"Tomlinson ruled out the prospect of Ginetta running a works car in the WEC, stating: "We are a constructor, not a race team."

They are also forbidden to do so by the rules...

Tomlinson revealed that he had aborted a plan to race a G60 in next month's Spa WEC round because he would have been forced to pay the fines for missing races incurred by TRSM. "I was quite happy to fund running the car, but I wasn't prepared to pay €140,000 in fines that were nothing to do with us," he explained. Ginetta would have had to field the car using the TRSM entry because race-by-race entries are not permitted in LMP1.

Maybe someone from the ACO should some day explain why this F1 mentality as well

Even Kolles did that as late as 2017

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Chiana

"Tomlinson ruled out the prospect of Ginetta running a works car in the WEC, stating: "We are a constructor, not a race team."

They are also forbidden to do so by the rules...

Tomlinson revealed that he had aborted a plan to race a G60 in next month's Spa WEC round because he would have been forced to pay the fines for missing races incurred by TRSM. "I was quite happy to fund running the car, but I wasn't prepared to pay €140,000 in fines that were nothing to do with us," he explained. Ginetta would have had to field the car using the TRSM entry because race-by-race entries are not permitted in LMP1.

Maybe someone from the ACO should some day explain why this F1 mentality as well

Even Kolles did that as late as 2017

I think they are forbidden from entering as Ginetta THIS season as the entry was TRSM. If they wanted to enter the 2019-2020 season it would be a new entry and thus no fines stopping them from racing and changing entry name

[Tique]

It is disappointing. They have enough space at Spa in order to accommodate an extra car. Especially a LMP1. I really don’t understand this as good performance might make things happen for this car. I believe that the cost of the Ginetta will not be very expensive as at this stage they just want it on track.

[Anyopenroad]

I’m pretty sure Ginetta would happily have run the car as a non-points scoring entry just to get it on track. It would cost ACO nothing to let the car run at Spa.

[S griffin]

That would probably be best. LMP1 needs enough cars to keep it going

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

I’m pretty sure Ginetta would happily have run the car as a non-points scoring entry just to get it on track. It would cost ACO nothing to let the car run at Spa.

It would cost them the fine they currently have hanging over this entry for missing rounds.