Open Wheel Merger: junior formulas

[JOWT Blog]

I'd like to get some opinions on how the open wheel merger in America has and will affect the junior formula ranks. Opinions?

[drdisque]

It will weaken Atlantics, but they will still be able to operate, largely as a feeder to sports cars or europe or as a step between Star Mazda or FF2000 and Indy Lights. One thing they'll still have going for them is that they allow drivers younger than 18 while Lights doesn't.

It will obviously help Indy Lights by making it THE series to go to for people interested in IndyCar.

[D.R.T.]

Atlantics proved to bring some highly skilled drivers straight into champ car, so I am sure we would still see some going from FA to Indycar, but as you say with Lights running on the Indycar schedule that would be the place to go to best line up Indycar rides.

Getting Atlantic on the Indycar schedule would be an idea

[johntt]

The way I see it:
Formula Atlantic should be equivalent to F3
Indy Lights should be equivalent to Gp2 (but with multiple engine suppliers)

[Mr Pink]

I would like to see them do something like they have in MotoGP, where there are three distinctive steps. This way the guys in suits will see the drivers every raceweekend from when they are young.

If possible the TV-coverage will be similar to MotoGP aswell.

[Cheyne]

I think one problem with Atlantic's on the same weekend as the IRL is that you have to be 18 to race during a IRL weekend. Grand-Am ran it to the problem with Colin Braun.

Cheyne

[Teretonga]

Atlantic is possibly a better formula to run than Indy lights as far as training drivers (overall) for top level open wheel racing.

The problems are that it doesn't run with the IRL
It is more expensive to run than Indy Lights
Indy Lights has a better prize money structure
It has Formula mazda underneath and not too far away regarding power outputs etc.

It is a great formula and has great cars but that may not be enough to save it in the long term.
If it aligns itself with ALMS it should continue to provide the open wheel element at sports car events and thast may give it enough impetus to keep it going as long as Mazda continue to support it. In that respect it may actually have more young Americans in it than Indy lights which will appeal to foreigners who want to get into Indy cars.

[nickyf1]

Formula Atlantic seems more like the Road Racing series that feeds into Road Racing series such as ALMS and Grand AM. I see FA more like the Champcar to Indy Lights Indycar. FA doesnt run on ovals, although we still might see some drivers from FA go into Indy Lights.

[mountainstar]

I think Atlantics will be much the same it was before the split regarding it's hierarchy in the various other development series.

[bil588]

Who owns the Atlantics series? Kevin and others? What if they paired them with IMSA and ALMS rounds? The Firestone Indy Lights series needs less ovals for 2009.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bil588

Who owns the Atlantics series? Kevin and others? What if they paired them with IMSA and ALMS rounds? The Firestone Indy Lights series needs less ovals for 2009.

Don't quote me on it, but I think Vicki O'Conner took it off their hands.

For 20+ years up to CART/Champcar ownership, Atlantics ran with a variety of series. I think you'll see much the same now. I believe IMSA is sanctioning the series at the moment.

[JOWT Blog]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Formula Atlantic seems more like the Road Racing series that feeds into Road Racing series such as ALMS and Grand AM. I see FA more like the Champcar to Indy Lights Indycar. FA doesnt run on ovals, although we still might see some drivers from FA go into Indy Lights.

Do you think we will see even more open wheel drivers making the transition to fendered cars with the merger? (due to lack of openings)

[Tenoch]

Originally Posted by JOWT Blog

Do you think we will see even more open wheel drivers making the transition to fendered cars with the merger? (due to lack of openings)

Not Really most of the spots that existed in the Champ Car world series were pretty much pay rides.

[D.R.T.]

Id say both series Tenoch

[cartpix]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Don't quote me on it, but I think Vicki O'Conner took it off their hands.

For 20+ years up to CART/Champcar ownership, Atlantics ran with a variety of series. I think you'll see much the same now. I believe IMSA is sanctioning the series at the moment.

Actually Atlantics are a part of the IRL. Their hard cards say "I am Indy".

Jeff

[drdisque]

The IRL just might be making their HardCards because the champ car office that was doing it no longer exists.

[JOWT Blog]

Originally Posted by Tenoch

Not Really most of the spots that existed in the Champ Car world series were pretty much pay rides.

Agreed...but that's always been the case in both series (for the most part). Regardless of whether or not a driver is paying for his/her ride....there will still be less seats available in the North American open wheel world, with the merger. Most of these young drivers don't care how they get there...they just want to make it to Indy Car, Champ Car(example) or Formula One. Opinions?

You do bring up a very valid point though...... is/has money taken the place of talent? Will the lack of seats make any difference for the drivers with natural talent...will there be even more "less talented, rich" drivers filling the seats due to money?

-JOWT

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JOWT Blog

Agreed...but that's always been the case in both series (for the most part). Regardless of whether or not a driver is paying for his/her ride....there will still be less seats available in the North American open wheel world, with the merger. Most of these young drivers don't care how they get there...they just want to make it to Indy Car, Champ Car(example) or Formula One. Opinions?

You do bring up a very valid point though...... is/has money taken the place of talent? Will the lack of seats make any difference for the drivers with natural talent...will there be even more "less talented, rich" drivers filling the seats due to money?

-JOWT

The wave has ebbed and flowed though out the decades, but there has always been "pay" drivers and their always will be. There is probably no driver in existence that has not been a "pay" driver at some point. Even in F1 and Nascar, drivers that are paid still may have gotten their seat in whole or part due to commercial considerations by sponsors and manufacturers.

Unfortunately I think a lot of American teams are starting to follow the european formula model. Which is the team exists as an all encompassing entity providing motor racing services which the driver pays for out of personal funds or sponsorship. I'd like to think some drivers out there will still get picked on talent alone and it does appear some teams in the irl have done that and hopefully will continue to do so.

It's interesting times ahead I think for open wheel racing in the USA. It has problems of it's own to deal with but one problem on the horizon is the economy. I pay close attention to it and do my research and I'm inclined to believe at the moment the economy will probably not end up in a deep recession(hopefully) but that the debt and asset value inflation consumption binge is over for years to come. That could have an effect as many junior developmental formula teams have been kept alive by young racing drivers daddy's hedge fund or "real estate development" cash. I was witness to a Formula BMW test back in April and that series has popped like a balloon with less than a dozen cars with seats filled at that time(haven't bothered to check recently).

The problem that existed back in the CART day, still exists today. That is, how do you get a young guy that has shown some talent but no money or connections across the divide from nothing into a $350,000 Formula Bmw seat? And then onwards from there. Autosport did the calculations last year on what it would take just get a driver though the junior formulas into a Formula 1 test or test role. The figure as I recall was about $8 million US$. For indy you are looking at less perhaps, but it is still a daunting figure.

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by drdisque

The IRL just might be making their HardCards because the champ car office that was doing it no longer exists.

Please excuse my ignorance as a Brit but what exactly is a 'HardCard'?

[drdisque]

The Hard Card is the "All Access" pass given to drivers, officials, and team members of a racing series that allows them through security at every event of the season.