The Circuits - Discussion on their safety or otherwise!

[Simon Hadfield]

Simon, I find it strange that you are gagging to go to Goodwood and yet you declare Mallory to be unsafe to race on.....

[simon drabble]

Maybe its his Lordship's pep talk that gives some comfort that people behave!
Also perhaps more relevantly someone who helped me a lot when I first started racing was killed in a race at Mallory so it has a bad feel for me.....

[Simon Hadfield]

Both have some of the last great corners in British motorsport and should be cherished, but no one is making us go to either circuit!

[simon drabble]

Simon I totally agree and I am not saying someone is right or wrong to race at Mallory - its just not somewhere I would... a good friend of mine who has not only won at Goodwood but enjoyed a successful former career as a pro driver in single seaters and Group C reckons Goodwood is unsafe so it is clearly a personal thing.
I like Silverstone because it is so safe yet most seem to hate it - that is probably why I am normally towards the second half of the grid!!

[John Turner]

Actually, this is almost worth a thread on its own because drivers do seem to have a 'thing' about certain circuits, often, and logically, as a result of personal experiences. I remember Robin Rew (Reporter/photographer for various mags back in the 1970s, and founder member of RSSOC) who pedalled the only genuine ex works Reliant Sabre Six (rather well too) telling me that he wouldn't race at Thruxton because he had lost a couple of friends there and thought it was too fast. This was all over 30 years ago, of course. More recently, another driver has told me that he was a bit uncomfortable with parts of Snetterton.

[jamesholland]

I have to admit that Mallory is the one circuit I feel unsafe on. I certainly feel much happier at Goodwood but maybe because my car is quite slow.
My favourite, Cadwell Park, is crticised by many as being dangerous. Personally I prefer the more challenging circuits.

[Colin McKay]

I bowed out of the HSCC event at Mallory this year largely because I'm not comfortable with the safety of the circuit. I've watched several cars destroyed coming out of Gerards and on the approach to the hairpin although the only spin I've had there took me to the outside of Gerards where there is a fair bit of room. Someone said in an earlier post that it's good for testing, but some of the worst damage I've seen was on test & track days.

I enjoy Cadwell however, although with all those corners and hills it ought to be one of the worst. Perhaps its because the trickiest bits are taken at relatively low speed or maybe I've just been lucky (or too slow to get into trouble!).

[terence]

John,that is possibly a potentialy interesting thread.I personally think that before people are allowed to race in the UK,they should be made to drive a few laps of the 'Ring' just to get an idea on just how safe ALL of our domestic circuits are.I have 'lost' quite a few friends in road accidents but I still drive.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by jamesholland

I
My favourite, Cadwell Park, is crticised by many as being dangerous. Personally I prefer the more challenging circuits.

Biggest accident I've had to date was at Cadwell.

[compte deGraves]

Originally Posted by terence bower

John,that is possibly a potentialy interesting thread.I personally think that before people are allowed to race in the UK,they should be made to drive a few laps of the 'Ring' just to get an idea on just how safe ALL of our domestic circuits are.I have 'lost' quite a few friends in road accidents but I still drive.

Terence, you are not wrong. I drove a few demonstration laps in a single seater around the Nordshleife last year and scared the pants of myself. Single seaters have not been allowed to race on that ciruit for many a year now but even in the Elite I would have to say "no"!

[terence]

But Comte,are there not 'Dangerous' hillside roads where you live? I'll bet there are some that you like to 'Play' on.Most circuits have been around for many years,some have been hit hard by the Safety Police and in many ways have ruined the appeal of the layout [Brands,Dingle Dell] for one. I'm only glad that the likes of Eau Rouge has not been altered too much since it was first laid out.We are still quite lucky to have some classic corners left,albeit with mass's of run off.Its the black bit that counts,not the scenery.

[L-G Sjöberg]

Originally Posted by compte deGraves

Terence, you are not wrong. I drove a few demonstration laps in a single seater around the Nordshleife last year and scared the pants of myself. Single seaters have not been allowed to race on that ciruit for many a year now but even in the Elite I would have to say "no"!

If you mean the demonstration laps we were allowed to do at last year´s Eifelrennen, there must surely have been some other reason why you almost scared your pants off. The pace kept by the "pace car" was so lousy that keeping the coolant temperature within reasonable limits became a real problem.

[compte deGraves]

Terence, I do not disagree with you in any way. It is for the driver to drive on the black stuff and be aware of his immediately surroundings. If it is dangerous you should take that into consideration as you hurtle towards a corner. Having said that I must say sometimes one is grateful that there is something to slow you down.

[compte deGraves]

Originally Posted by L-G Sjöberg

If you mean the demonstration laps we were allowed to do at last year´s Eifelrennen, there must surely have been some other reason why you almost scared your pants off. The pace kept by the "pace car" was so lousy that keeping the coolant temperature within reasonable limits became a real problem.

That just shows you what a merde driver I am.

[L-G Sjöberg]

Mon dieu!

[terence]

Originally Posted by compte deGraves

Terence, I do not disagree with you in any way. It is for the driver to drive on the black stuff and be aware of his immediately surroundings. If it is dangerous you should take that into consideration as you hurtle towards a corner. Having said that I must say sometimes one is grateful that there is something to slow you down.

Ah !!!!! The brake pedal.

[midgetman]

As a kid I heard Graham Hill say he didn't have a favourite circuit, because that would mean by extension a least favourite which would immediately put him at a disadvantage there.

Thankfully us amateurs have the luxury of being slow at our least favourite. And we can pick and choose tracks.

Eddy V's signature is "the older I get the faster I was." Think mine should be "the older I get, the more I like the big run offs!!!!!" Racing's only for fun, I expect to come home in one piece. I'm too old for bravado ;-)

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I have 'lost' quite a few friends in road accidents but I still drive.

Not a good analogy really though Terence. Many of us have to drive (especially if we live in the sticks and/or there is not much in the way of public transnport) whether it be to go shopping, get to work, meet friends etc. Motor racing is not a necessity (even though some of you probably think it is and would fade away without it ); it is a hobby and something you choose to do rather than have to do; just like some will choose which circuits they will race on.

I'm making this a new thread, starting with Simon H's post!

[terence]

Good idea John.Whilst I understand Max'es point,I dont really think it's bravado as such,more like when getting a 'tricky' circuit right,there is more pleasure from it.

[Mike Bell]

I'm sure this thread will run & run.....

I did a race at Mallory in 1989 when the Peugeot GTi Rally championship included a race there. As all the other events were stage rallies I didn't consider the circuit dangerous! I rolled the car into a ball in Yorkshire somewhere, and was genuinely scared of the speeds attained on the Manx rally, so I guess any circuit would have felt relatively safe!

No-one has suggested Brands is unsafe, but it has seen at least 2 serious crashes during historic meetings this year, and Silverstone pitwall seems to feature in some unpleasant incidents too. I can see why Gerrards can produce some nasty impacts, but is it any more dangerous?

[jhh911]

All uk circuits are massively safer than when I raced on them back in the seventies with acres of run of area and gravel traps replacing walls made of railway sleepers,however please dont ask for any more chicanes.Many of the nice fast circuits such as Combe ,Oulton, Snetterton ,have already be spoiled by these shunt creatars.It would be a great shame to see extra ones added to slow cars before the wonderfull fast corners at places like Mallory,Truxton,Croft,Brands GP. We all have a choice as to how hard we push and where.If the circuits are without challenge whats the point?

[terence]

Exactly the point. Most circuits were laid out to prove a challenge for car and driver.

[v8dave]

I have only left the track at a very few circuits and have been lucky every time. Among them are Snetterton and Cadwell but my excursions have been at locations I would not regard as dangerous in the context of those circuits. That said I think Cadwell's Hall Bends are now less intimidating than when the banks were close and solid, does that now make the hairpin more dangerous because people arrive faster?

Dave

[SZRacer]

Actually, I would expand on this and say that a lot of the 'big' circuits are now safer than even 10 years ago, especially for us in Historic cars.

Having rolled my previous Alfa into a battered mess at Paddock at Brands, (and I quite agree with John when he says this colours your view of a circuit - took me 6 years to feel safe enough to race at Brands again!), my accident was caused by (well, apart from driving like a t5*t), the sideways momentum of a spin coupled with skinny historic tyres, and a deep gravel trap.

Now a lot of said corners (Paddock is one, Copse at Silverstone another that springs to mind) have been converted to large grass runoff areas, they definitely feel safer to this Historic driver!

Weirdly, although I am a complete chicken when it comes to risk-taking (I'd rather bring myself and the car back in one piece), my two favourite circuits to drive are Pau and Chimay!

In the UK, my least favourite circuit from a safety point of view is probably also Mallory, mainly for the shunting possibilities before the hairpin (Alfas are thankfully, nicely balanced round Gerrards), followed by Goodwood (I love driving the circuit, but always feel the SuperShell building appears just a little too quickly!).

Saying that, I'm at Thruxton in a couple of weeks, and always try not to remind myself that an accident on the back section means you probably won't stop till the A303...!

Originally Posted by jhh911

All uk circuits are massively safer than when I raced on them back in the seventies with acres of run of area and gravel traps replacing walls made of railway sleepers,however please dont ask for any more chicanes.Many of the nice fast circuits such as Combe ,Oulton, Snetterton ,have already be spoiled by these shunt creatars.It would be a great shame to see extra ones added to slow cars before the wonderfull fast corners at places like Mallory,Truxton,Croft,Brands GP. We all have a choice as to how hard we push and where.If the circuits are without challenge whats the point?

[grantp]

Originally Posted by SZRacer

Now a lot of said corners (Paddock is one, Copse at Silverstone another that springs to mind) have been converted to large grass runoff areas, they definitely feel safer to this Historic driver!

What about when it's wet? Is gravel preferable to grass then? Or is it likely to be flattened and be of little use?

I have experienced wet grass and concluded that, at best, it offers about the same grip as sheet ice.