Another new touring car ruleset (German Procar Series)

[porsche962fan]

why don't they allow NGTC cars too ?

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

why don't they allow NGTC cars too ?

too expensive

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

why don't they allow NGTC cars too ?

And too fast. The new spec is suppossedly just a bit slower than original S2000, with NGTC being quite a bit faster.

[FIRE]

These small cars are not very exciting.

Not really understand why they not have chosen for cars like Opel Astra, BMW 1-Series, Mercedes A-Class, Audi A3 and Ford Focus.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

These small cars are not very exciting.

Not really understand why they not have chosen for cars like Opel Astra, BMW 1-Series, Mercedes A-Class, Audi A3 and Ford Focus.

The rule book doesn't mandate small cars, but with the close to production spec engines only putting out some 230hp they need to have a lower weight than the S2000 cars to be competitive against them. The baseweight for the 1T cars is only 1020kgs and that's much easier to attain with a smaller car.

I'll withold judgement until I've seen some pictures of the finished cars and the 208GTi that Peugeot ran at the Ring last year proofs that small cars can be quite interesting, but I am afraid we might fall a bit short of that.

Also, these 'small cars' have gotten kind of big in recent years. The current Fiesta comes in at just under 4m, that's as long as a Golf Mk.III ... the first generation Focus was 4.17m and the current Focus is at 4.35m. So we really aren't too far away from what was run in DTC 15 years ago.

[AxelF]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The rule book doesn't mandate small cars, but with the close to production spec engines only putting out some 230hp they need to have a lower weight than the S2000 cars to be competitive against them. The baseweight for the 1T cars is only 1020kgs and that's much easier to attain with a smaller car.

I'll withold judgement until I've seen some pictures of the finished cars and the 208GTi that Peugeot ran at the Ring last year proofs that small cars can be quite interesting, but I am afraid we might fall a bit short of that.

Also, these 'small cars' have gotten kind of big in recent years. The current Fiesta comes in at just under 4m, that's as long as a Golf Mk.III ... the first generation Focus was 4.17m and the current Focus is at 4.35m. So we really aren't too far away from what was run in DTC 15 years ago.

I think, cars from smaller classes are not a big problem. Competition must be very close then, and we all have fun. Of course it is noch very interesting, to see 5-8 faster cars, and 30 not soooo fast cars. They will be overlapped very often and even there good duells will become odd, if they have to go to the side, for only a few faster cars...

[Speed-King]

Updated entry list for Division 1:

Division 1:
tba - Wolf Racing - Ford Fiesta ST
Reinhard Nehls (GER) - Besaplast Team Dombek - MINI JCW Challenge
Johannes Leidinger (GER) - tba - Ford Fiesta ST
Matthias Kaul (GER) -RACING TEAM KAUL - Opel
Markus Huggler (SUI) - HUGGLER MOTORSPORT - BMW 320i E46
TBA - Thate Motorsport - BMW 320si E90
TBA - MRP - Peugeot 207
TBA - ETH - Peugeot 207
TBA - ??? - Mini JCW

[Metzo]

wonder who will drive for thate as weimann retired last season

[Metzo]

some updates for Division 1:
- russian team AMG Motorsport will enter 2 320si for Mikhail Grachev & Mikhail Stepanov
- Henk Vuik will enter a Mercedes C200 (had the same plans last year but didnt appear at any rounds.)

[Speed-King]

Well, here's the (preliminary?) entry list for Oschersleben:

http://www.adac-procar.de/content/media/5844.pdf

5 of the new turbo-charged cars and two old bimmers in Div.1 for now.

[Speed-King]

Things are looking 'up-ish' for next year. If everything goes well, this could be the potential Division 1 field:

2 Wolf Fiesta
2 LB Fiesta
3 Dombek Mini
1 ETH Peugeot
1 Frensch Power Citroen DS3
1 Glatzel Fiesta
2 Vukovic Clio

I'd think that between division 2 and 3 the organizers can muster another 10 or so cars, so the series should at least not be in full survival mode next year. Which, given recent history - has to count for something...

S2000-cars of any persusasion are gone for good now. What I am wondering is if FIA's new TCN-2 cars could find a place in Procar (should that concept ever get off the ground). The two rulesets don't seem too far apart (other than the engine formula with Procar being 1.6T and TCN-2 2.0 NA)

[DS"]

Wouldn't TCR be an option for the near future? If the claims of a TCR car costing 100.000€ are true, I'd imagine that some backmarker teams from the GT Masters might switch over. Not to mention teams like Wiechers, Engstler or some of the guys that run Opel Astra OPCs in VLN.

[Speed-King]

I think, TCR was just a little too late. With a bunch of teams in Procar invested in the new 1.6 cars, I can't see them switching over to a new ruleset anytime soon, and I don't think the two are BoPable.

[Metzo]

at the the final round at sachsenring they also presented a Kia Cee'd, maybe a team could enter that as well.

[Speed-King]

I think that one's really just a stickered up road car.

Would be a nice break from the B-segement cars, though.

[Planty]

Nice to see more cars next year. Always enjoyed those Fiesta drivers pushing their car to the limit, tyres squeeling, rear wheels almost bumping on and off the ground.
BTW This photo speaks for itself, almost dropped a piece went he through.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by DS"

Wouldn't TCR be an option for the near future? If the claims of a TCR car costing 100.000€ are true, I'd imagine that some backmarker teams from the GT Masters might switch over. Not to mention teams like Wiechers, Engstler or some of the guys that run Opel Astra OPCs in VLN.

I can see TCR/TC3 as the top class (replacing S2000) with current Fiesta's and Mini's as 2nd class.

[Speed-King]

Maybe a few years down the road, but I guess before that they'll have to let those teams that have bought into the current division 1 on the premise of this being the top category recoup their investments.

But then, getting into TCR now, might not be the best timing anyway (though some series of course have to take the plunge first), so maybe they can adopt TCR in 2017 or 2018 once it has fully matured.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I can see TCR/TC3 as the top class (replacing S2000) with current Fiesta's and Mini's as 2nd class.

As Speed-King has said, I can see such a move happen in 2017 or later, once cheap used cars from the international series become available. On the other hand, I'm sure Franz Engstler wouldn't mind keeping up his business model of running pay drivers in ADAC Procar...

[Speed-King]

Speaking of Allgäu teams, apparently Hohenester Sport is interested in a Procar Division 1 campaign as well.

We already had Wolf Racing made their comeback, so this really begins to look a bit like a proper DTC-revival... I am beginning to wonder what Brinkmann is up to and if Kissling could be interested in building a Corsa...

[JD Media]

http://www.adac-procar.de/default.as...d%20Ergebnisse

The 2015 calendar. When ADAC GT is racing on the RedBullRing, ADAC Procar will not race there, but @ Zolder in the same weekend supporting the Blancpain Sprint Series...

[Speed-King]

No Hockenheim yet, I guess that's one of the TBAs, though many of the known Hockenheim racing dates for next year would clash with rounds already on the calender. If they add Hockenheim, it's probably either gonna be the finale with GT-Masters or one of the April dates.

[Speed-King]

Johannes Leidinger's Fiesta with the considerably more aggressive 2015 aero-package... still doesn't look like a car that should be in the top class of a series, but much better than last year and I guess there's only so much you can do when starting with a Fiesta.

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

still doesn't look like a car that should be in the top class of a series

reminds me of the super production cars just with a rearwing. i can live with that.

[JD Media]

They have added the Spa Racing Festival (2-4 October) to the calendar.

With 1 TBA left and no Nurburgring & no Hockenheim, it's a bit weird for a german series...

Maybe they are hoping to race at the 24hr Nordschleife? In the month may they don't have any races yet..