Bishop on Montoya

[f1manoz]

Bishop is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else. IMO he's being a little bit over the top...

[Gt_R]

MrV, that's why i said "over a season", sure at certain tracks, certain car/tyre/engine were a better package (ie Renault at Hungary, Ferrari at USA) , but there's hardly any denying that Williams still had the overall best package for 2003. They had a bad start no doubt, but MS didn't start of 2003 beautifully as well, and once the Williams was sorted, it really was THE package to be in.

We are not going to disagree about JPM's talent (maybe to varying degree ) but it is the accepting of JPM's application beyond the scope of racing that is left disappointing - if only because we believe that there is so much in him.

Williams loved him. Head loved him. His team loved him. Williams is strong. BMW is strong. Everything was so cosy and nice for JPM to grow and strive and get that WDC, but for all that is possible, for all that is promised, it finally came to nothing simply because of "impulsive" conclusions and causing tension internally as Head would put it.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Gt_R


it finally came to nothing simply because of "impulsive" conclusions and causing tension internally as Head would put it.

He's still got this year.

[Gt_R]

I agree. In fact, he still has next year and the year after...

[Led ZeppF1]

Well, every story have two different side. Patrick Head had comes out tells his views, and Montoya hasn't.

I'm sure that when JPM tells his side it will be a bit different. Maybe, in time when he already joint with McLaren. Or, maybe not.

For instance, speaking in November, Juan said: "The decision to change teams wasn’t dictated by a falling out with Williams."

http://www.planet-f1.com/Home/story_14365.shtml

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't think we'll find out Juan's take on all this until he's either won the title, or is out of the chase. He must know that he needs to keep them onside to maximise his chance sof winning the title. Both Kimi and JPM coudl win the 2004 title - symbolically, if one of them has #2 on the car, they will struggle to get the upper hand in the team.

[alesi95]

Bishops a hack. everybody knows this

[Don K]

Originally posted by Mr V
3 wins, 11 poles, 10 fastest laps, 20 podiums, 29 points scoring positions, 163 points.

If thats not getting the hang of F1 i don't know what is

If we compare that to the other guys in the top-3 teams (not counting Michael), I would say: not bad, not good.

He seems to be quite good in getting poles and fastets laps.
The other drivers seem to be better at winning races.
He lacks slightly in the number of point-scoring finishes, but he scores enough podiums.

Which makes him about just as good as Ralf, David and Kimmi.


Personally, I've got the feeling that Juan is improving, and that he might be fighting for the title some time within the next three years.
But looking at the facts alone, I don't see a reason to ridicule someone who happens to rate him as nr 8.

[Damon]

When you consider that those stats were accumulated during a period of unprecedented dominance for Ferrari the stats look considerably better. The Williams' that JPM has had at his disposal have been only slightly better than competitive prior to Monaco '03, yet he's still managed to drag some pretty fine results from them. Heck, in 7 years Ralf has barley got 1/3 of the number of poles JPM has achieved in 3. While Montoya has also only won 3 GP's so far, consider the number of races where the car has let him down whilst leading.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. To base a statement of fact purely on figures that do not take into account timing and situation is rather naive. If JPM is only the 8th best driver in Formula One then he's done himself proud to beat those supposedly better than him so consistently over the last 3 seasons.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Don K


The other drivers seem to be better at winning races.
He lacks slightly in the number of point-scoring finishes, but he scores enough podiums.

My fault, i should have answered this one earlier. He's had 18 retirements (and 3 non points finishes)....

Of those 18 retirements....

12 were mechanical failure

5 were spins/crashes that were his own fault

1 when Jos crashed into him whilst leading.

From memory, of those (mechanical) failures, he was leading 4 times, second place 3 times and 3rd twice. 10 possible podiums lost.

[Speed]

Yeahhhhhhhh, Montoya is da man !

[DaveOrama]

MOntoya is very good, but up until F1 he had things largely go his own way...it was comparitively easy.

F1 is the top echelon of racing and so the quality of opposition is better. Where he was the stand out in previous series, now there are another 4 or 5 just as good if not better.

[Speed]

You are right DO...
When everybody has the same machinery, best racers always shine..., F1 is a different story, pilots depend more on what machine they drive.

[BootsOntheSide]

Montoya seems to have had the lion's share of the reliability failures, and in an age where it's widely accepted that the driver can't cause these. Don't overlook that, were it not for his failure while leading in Austria, he would've won the title had he won the race, adn finsihed 2nd in it even if Michael had overhauled him. That despite having the third-best car (if that) (and still taking podiums with it) for the opening few races.

Montoya only had it easyin the other championships because of his phenomenal talent. Few other driver shave come so close to winning F3000 as a rookie, or won it so commandingly in his second season. He then went to CART and obliterated a strong field, including a champion team-mate, as well as drivers of the calibre of de Ferran, Franchitti, Tracy, Andretti, da Matta, Papis and Moore.

[Gt_R]

Quote:"Don't overlook that, were it not for his failure while leading in Austria, he would've won the title had he won the race"

Would have's are really "IFS"...pretty big iffs if u ask me

Yeah...JPM would have won if Williams din't screw up the opening few races, but similarly, JPM won't win anything if Williams just gave him a Minardi for the year.

Why bring up all the statistics to support JPM's greatness, and then having another JPM-fan calling statistics lies? Really, nobody doubts (ok, some doubters maybe) JPM's a more than average driver with the talents, but what many reflected is simply that JPM, for all his worth, had done less than realistically expected, and could have achieved a lot more than what he did. It's really a reflection of how the general public hold JPM's abilities (which is a lot more than most other drivers). Ranking him 8 is only saying he din't do great on the "achieved results
:"should-have results" ratio.

JPM din't have a perfect reliability record in his Williams, but please don't make him sound as if he had a Cosworth or Honda engine or a Minardi chassis...at no point in time is his car far from the best of the pack, if not a lot better as the middle of the season.

[santori]

Not a great season from JPM but a damn sight better than Ralf's. Bishop is always changing his mind and proclaiming the new Truth. Remember a couple of years ago he was praising JV as Michael's true rival; now he thinks JV was never that good.
Changing your mind is fair enough - acting as if your every word is law is not.

[freud]

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
Just read that F1 Racing's Editor Matt Bishop launch 'harsh' word on Montoya.

He considers Montoya to be the 8th best driver of 2003, behind Ralf, and that everyone hates him at Williams.:confused:

"JPM was a serious morale-douser for Williams in 2003, which is one reason why most Williams engineers will be glad to see the back of him," he said.

http://www.itv-f1.com/bishop/bishop_story/19240

How much did Matt Bishop get from Maranello for this??

The fact is that right before the 2004 f1 season starts everone's pulling JPM's legs... press, FIA or Ross Brawn. Its just because certain lobby in f1 knows that JPM is the most formidable challenge to Michael for 2004. Mclaren failed to built a good car, Renault are not quite there yet so it will be Michael vs Williams again in 2004. And JPM will be very strong again.

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by freud
[B]How much did Matt Bishop get from Maranello for this??

The fact is that right before the 2004 f1 season starts everone's pulling JPM's legs.../B]

Its make a sense. Thanks.

[Mattracer]

If Montioya hadn't had tye race winning pedigree pre F1 then the expecataions woud be lot less.

F3000 champion
CART champion
Winner- Indy 500 (1st attempt)

I also agree with stsement about the reliablity issue. In this day and age, for the car to fail consistently it almost certainly cannot be the sole fault of te driver when the engine, transmission and diff are controlled electronically and hydraulically.

[KC]

In my opinion, JPM is a really good and really aggressive driver. The CART machines showcased his ability to power drift, late brake, and take extreme chances to go for the win. Problem is, the F1 cars cannot be driven in this manner. Power drifting an F1 car makes for bad lap times. Everyone is a master of late braking with the current technology in F1. F1 cars also rarely reward the driver taking the extreme chance. Once in a while you see a pass on the outside of parabolica (ala Jacques Villeneuve) or a knifing slash as a driver passes two cars in one corner (ala Mika Hakkinen), but these are rare and do not always succeed.

The second problem is that JPM does not think that he has to work very hard to be the best because of his natural talent. He has not had to worry about his fitness, his interaction with the team and his prowess over all as a racing driver in F1. Hard work does not come naturally to him, I think.

[Mattracer]

Agree.

Because he is so naturally good, he doesn't have to work as hard at the craft of driving but paradoxically, it is probably here that the biggest gains in F1 as a driver and his craft can be made. If he he had the work ethic of Michael Schumacher how far ahead would he likely be?

[krt917]

I don't think it would put him ahead necessarily because there are others on the grid as talented as him, but it would make him an impressive challenger, which he may yet become.

I agree that F1 needs to be more sheer-driving orientated than set-up/technically orientated, but I guess that's another issue!

[AGRfan]

Juan is # 1 and no one is better! Kimi is close, but still # 2. And this year all of the none believers will see. It's going to be a great year.

GO!!!! JUAN------->>>>>>

[Speed]

[Stephenw]

Monotya is a head case.

Hope he gets over it.