Max Mosley's plans for F1/2008 rules (merged).....

[Super Tourer]

As part of his ongoing drive to 'improve' F1, Max Mosley has called a 'brainstorrming' session amongst top F1 engineer's to explore their ideas to improve racing, cut costs, increase equivalency, etc, etc.

However, he (allegedly) apparently has a few ideas of his own:

"Having one sole tyre supplier, thus ridding F1 of the so-called tyre war.

Reduction of engine size and power. It's understood that he's looking at introducing a 2.4 litre V8 format, with a power output of around 700 bhp. These engines would have to last for two race weekends.

The banning of exotic materials

A serious cut back on computer technology, resulting (hopefully) in a back-to-basics approach.

The banning, or at least serious reduction, of private testing.

The banning of spare cars"

Of course, we have heard all this before - remember when Max was going to employ an 'iron fist' against the teams. It's also a widely used tactic by MM to produce a whole raft of 'change' to shock the teams, and drop many or nearly all of them, in order to get the one or two changes through that he really wants. So in essence they become bargaining tools.

Many of the suggestions are items we've debated long and oft on 10/10 - a reduction of electronics and reverting to a 'proper' gearbox - being one of them.


read the full story:http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=20623

[ASCII Man]

I'd like the single tyre suplier bit the most, puts just about every team at equal footing so no more wondering what tyre is best at what track and with what weather and all...

The engine bit, i don't know but just as long as they don't sound like vacuum cleaners like the IRL cars do then it's all fine by me...

BUT, which one's is it gonna beeee?!?!
This is MaXXXies Lottoooooo hosted by Bernie & Co and presented to you by Giggle Cream, the dessert that's meant to be funny!

[climb]

ApPart from getting back to one tyre supplier, a choice that could have on the other hand, some negative consequences, first of all a fall in the tyre companies interest towards F1, the other moves are not easily practicable, since banning technology often leads to the obsessive search for loopholes to trick the rules.

[Super Tourer]

The full list of proposals the FIA has submitted to the teams:http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=20625

Highlights:

2.4 L V8 engine lasting for 2 race weekends
Standard ECU

Manual gearbox and clutch
Ban on power steering
standard brake discs and pads

Chassis weight reduced by 50kg
Tyre width reduced at the front and increased at the rear.

New targets on tyre and aero performance to achieve specfic targets for cornering and straightline speeds, braking, etc.

No spare cars
Single tyre supplier

Private testing limited by mileage rather than time, monitored by an FIA ECU

No tyre changes in race - only allowable for punctures.

No restriction on the sale or loan of chassis or components between teams.

New qualifying system to be explored.

------------------------------------------------------

If half a dozen of these get ratified I'll eat my hat !

ST

[Super Tourer]

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...pals_Apr22.pdf

The letter sent to team principals on 22/04/04:

Interestingly the list of recipents is:

Flavio Briatore
Eddie Jordan
David Richards
Peter Sauber
Jean Todt
Sir Frank Williams

No - Ron Dennis,Paul Stoddart, Toyota or Jaguar representative.????

[ASCII Man]

I don't think the power steering thing would pull through.
This would practically stop the swarm of juvenile delinquents to F1! No Kimi Raikkonen's, Felipe Massa's or (thankfully) Esteban Tuero's anymore then!

[Sodemo]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
The full list of proposals the FIA has submitted to the teams:http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=20625

Highlights:

2.4 L V8 engine lasting for 2 race weekends
Standard ECU

Manual gearbox and clutch
Ban on power steering
standard brake discs and pads

Chassis weight reduced by 50kg
Tyre width reduced at the front and increased at the rear.

New targets on tyre and aero performance to achieve specfic targets for cornering and straightline speeds, braking, etc.

No spare cars
Single tyre supplier

Private testing limited by mileage rather than time, monitored by an FIA ECU

No tyre changes in race - only allowable for punctures.

No restriction on the sale or loan of chassis or components between teams.

New qualifying system to be explored.

------------------------------------------------------

If half a dozen of these get ratified I'll eat my hat !

ST

I agree with the reduction in engine size, however whats wrong with a 2.2 litre V10?

Standard ECU would be good for racing (no traction control) but the purists will kick up a stink.

Agree with the gearbox/clutch/brake pads - good move.

Reducing the chassis weight is a bad idea, if anything they want to increase it, surely this would lower costs and make the racing better = heavier car = longer braking distances.

The tyre width issue - why not return to slicks?

A single tyre supplier could be a good or bad thing. If they return to the situation in 1999 with just Bridgestone, they will only produce a super hard compound, which is bad for racing and overtaking as it robs the drivers of mechanical grip. However if the FIA insist on making the single tyre a slick, and a soft slick, then that would be ok.

[garcon]

There's already a series that caters for most of those proposed changes, ST.

It's called IRL...

And I don't mean that in a good way. If you want to race with clutches and standard brakes and so on, try a historic series. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport - in technology terms too. If we lose the outlet for high-tech development in motorsport, what happens to automotive technological advancement as a whole?

[ASCII Man]

It's not like there's anything new in F1 now in terms of technology...
What else is there to do for so called innovation?
Active aerodynamics?
That's already being done elsewhere...
Although F1 could make it a lot more expensive by adding all sorts of hi-tech nonsense to it, which is what they normally do...

[Kicking-back]

These proposals sound very good and should result in better racing

[RWC]

A mish mash of ok and useless stuff
I'm not sure how the standard ECU idea will go,allthough my guess is that it has as much chance as bernie givving all his money to charity.The manufacturers will HATE it.
Manual gearbox and clutch is also a no-no.The teams have argued for years that electronic gearchange save bulk dollars in engine rebuilds from missed shifts,and they are dead right


One tyre supplier...oh good grief.here we go again...............

Other ideas are mostly just lame trimming the edges long term plans by moansley to keep speeds under control
MOST importantly there is NO ATTEMPT AT ALL at changing the most desperately important problem in f1-the difficulty of running cars close together (AERO)

I really like the idea of restricting testing by mileage (by std ECU or a sealed timer on every engine)
But once again this is unlikely to get through--not while ferrari has a major testing advantage and the rules can't be changed without their say so...

[Gt_R]

The proposed changes only seem to be a step back.

[DriverT]

Yeah, I agree. They need to really cut back on aero. That is the problem. I don't think cutting back on engines will achieve anything because there is no problem with the top speed. Aero cuts will cut cornering speeds sufficiently.

One tyre supplier -- BAD idea. Tyre wars make it more fun; more variables to think of. I like the manual gearbox, although some of the changes are ridiculous:

Chassis weight reduced by 50kg

Insane. That would completely favour the top teams and put those lower down the F1 scale at an immediate disadvantage. Surely this is something they should be trying to avoid?

Tyre width reduced at the front and increased at the rear.

I agree with the latter, although I think the tyre width at front should be the same as it is now.

No spare cars

What possible use is that? It gives the younger drivers a chance to do Friday testing and establish a name for themselves. Thus it's in direct contravention to current FIA policy.

No tyre changes in race - only allowable for punctures.

Why don't they just go the whole hog and ban refuelling?

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Super Tourer

Chassis weight reduced by 50kg

The proposal is actually to increase the weight by 50kg

[DanJR1]

I think F1 needs to decide what it is. Its either a technolgical spectacle or a sporting event.

Thinking about it, F1 can have high-tech approach but only if its standardised across the board ie.Active suspension systems supplied by one company or really high tech ECUs. Or it could really ban all modern technology and race single seater versions of NASCARs

[johnw]

I guess that this proves that Max has passed his sell by date.
It's F3000 by another name.
Just take out the aero, go back to big slicks have the throttles controlled by a cable. That should lower the corner speed, the top speed and make the driver control the car.

[Armco Bender]

Put me down for a big Yaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn too. Its fairy story thinking.

[DavidStHubbins]

I really miss the old qualifying!

I really loved the way the new qualies shuffle the race but that is no longer doing it for me...

God knows what we'll end up with.

[Red]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...pals_Apr22.pdf

The letter sent to team principals on 22/04/04:

Interestingly the list of recipents is:

Flavio Briatore
Eddie Jordan
David Richards
Peter Sauber
Jean Todt
Sir Frank Williams

No - Ron Dennis,Paul Stoddart, Toyota or Jaguar representative.????

That's probably because first phrase: "Thank you for accepting our invitation for 4 May." The letter Max sent them on April 13 (read it here) was sent to "All Formula One Team Principals). Now, why the aforementioned gentlemen didn't accept the invitation, that's another story, but no less interesting!

[Adam43]

2.4 L V8 engine lasting for 2 race weekends

I don't want a reduction in engine size. I like power power power! But if they have to then I'll accept it. Making them all V8s is dull. Variety the spics of life. 2 race weekends? I don't like one weekend. The reduction in running is not worth it IMHO.

Standard ECU

I don't like it, but I realise it is the only way to achieve some of the other aspects. So alright lets have it.

Manual gearbox and clutch

Yes yes yes. The drivers championship. Make it harder

Ban on power steering

yes!

standard brake discs and pads

Hmmm, I'm not keen. I suppose they can make them less effecient for overtaking, but I'd prefer a ban on materials or a size restriction? Difficult as there is a safety aspect to my last suggestion.

Chassis weight reduced by 50kg

I suppose this is because the ballast is so much now. I'm not bothered either way, but I'm suprised it isn't used as a chance ot increase the servity of the crash test criteria.

Tyre width reduced at the front and increased at the rear.

Why not! It'll make them look better! (which isn't a bad thing). Easy to do if you have a single manufacturer (which I don't like).

New targets on tyre and aero performance to achieve specfic targets for cornering and straightline speeds, braking, etc.

I read a thing in Autosport this week by Mark Hughes. He was saying that if you take the wings of you get higher speeds so you can't do this. True I suppose, but it is all about making them less effecient. Wings - yes, good wings - no!

No spare cars

That'd be good when we get a title decider and one of them sits out the race!

Single tyre supplier

no it is a competiton. We have different cars, so different tyres too.

Private testing limited by mileage rather than time, monitored by an FIA ECU

Interesting. I am unsure.

No tyre changes in race - only allowable for punctures.

Nah, although you can do this more easily with one manufacturer. Ban refuelling.

No restriction on the sale or loan of chassis or components between teams.

Go on then.

New qualifying system to be explored.

A change is needed. I would like Old qualifying systems to be explored though!

ST's comment
If half a dozen of these get ratified I'll eat my hat !

I know what you mean, a Max ploy?

Although a single tyre manufacturer would allow esy implimentation of a lot of them!

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
The proposal is actually to increase the weight by 50kg

Scrub what I said about ballast then!

[Red]

No, the proposal is to DECREASE weight (read ballast; one reason is to reduce the energy a car has at impact)

[1200Datto27]

Can anyone say GPWC?

[Red]

Yes, me! And looking forward to it.

[bluebeard]

i agree with the one set of tyres to last a race but this got to be coupled with no re-fuelling, ie carry enough fuel on board... this would also increase the chassis weight initially, they would all then have to dream up another way of overtaking with no pit stops to do it in!:confused: