Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Barn Finds > A1GP

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Nov 2009, 12:26 (Ref:2576322)   #101
dave not neil
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
England
Posts: 207
dave not neil should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson View Post
In my opinion the loss of A1-GP is no great loss. It is to the staff and employees and creditors, I feel sorry for them. But it's just one more formula in the middle that we don't need. I feel the same about Superleague.
Anyway...talking of Papyrus Indycar, I did the artwork painting for the original...see here. Had almost forgotten about it until your post. Thanks!
http://www.andrewkitson.com/pages/andrettipc.htm
What an absolute load of rubbish. I feel deeply angered by your post. As a mechanic trying to make a living from motorsport, for someone to suggest that a series 'is not needed' and that its collapse, which has left countless numbers of people in severe financial difficulties, is no great less, highly offends me.
A1GP was a brilliant series, it's concept was great, and that you cannot deny. To suggest that a nation vs. nation series is of no need is ridiculous. Next year millions of people will be glued to there TV screens to watch the 2010 Football world cup, a nation vs. nation competition, which is a huge money spinner. Given the right promotion and management, it could, and should be hugely popular.
Each series, for various reasons, is needed. Whether or not, you, sitting in your little part of Norfolk believes it is or not.
So perhaps before you start writing these kinds of posts in the future, with your false sentiments to the people affected by its downturn, you might actually consider what it means to us, the people currently struggling to make a living from this sport.
dave not neil is offline  
__________________
David Matthew Neil.
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 12:37 (Ref:2576327)   #102
Andrew Kitson
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
5 minutes from Snetterton
Posts: 3,840
Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Dave, apologies, I did not mean to offend and I do feel for those affected by this collapse. The good thing about A1 was employment for many over the winter...that was a big plus as many teams lay off staff over the winter as you are well aware.

However there are far too many series in the middle, too many vested interests without a clear cut ladder to the top which dilutes the good available drivers with budgets. That was what I was getting at. It was far easier in the old days FF-F3-F2-F1 but yes things have changed I admit. I might be in the remote corner of Norfolk but very close to former A1-GP title winning David Sears Motorsport and also GP2 winners from last week iSport and Comtec & P1 WSR teams.
Anyway apologies.
Andrew Kitson is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 13:51 (Ref:2576382)   #103
Mak
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 668
Mak should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Andrew, I to think you are wrong about A1GP. It was not in competition with any of the many "ladder" formula's. It was a new concept which looked like taking off until stupid management decisions destroyed it. The best part of the concept was that it was not driver funded and in theory the best drivers were picked. Everyone involved in it was enthusiastic and felt it was a great series. Most involved have many years experience in these "ladder" formula's and have become very cinical. It is a very sad loss to motorsport.
plus A1GP did not just employ in the winter, and recently just at David Sears Motorsports alone there has been 20+ full time redundencies due to this mis-management by A1

Last edited by Mak; 5 Nov 2009 at 13:56.
Mak is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 13:55 (Ref:2576384)   #104
JagtechOhio
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
United States
Powell, Ohio USA
Posts: 2,311
JagtechOhio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJagtechOhio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'll admit to knowing very little about A1GP, but I had hoped it actually would be a good ladder for U.S. open wheel drivers to show a glimpse of the goods to F1 principles.

My impression is that no series exists here, including IndyCar, that holds enough cache for overseas audiences to take much notice. If Marco Andretti or J.R. Hildebrand could have shown extremely well in a spec A1GP ride, I'd have thought they might be offered a test.

As it stands now, Marco might not have an IndyCar seat without the family heritage, and Hildebrand won the IndyLights Championship and is looking for a job. Their post-season participation in A1GP would have beneficial in at least some respect.

Bloody shame for all concerned, best wishes to Dave for a good day tomorrow.
_____________________________________________________________
Andy Bernstein
JagtechOhio is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 14:02 (Ref:2576388)   #105
Andrew Kitson
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
5 minutes from Snetterton
Posts: 3,840
Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mak View Post
Andrew, I to think you are wrong about A1GP. It was not in competition with any of the many "ladder" formula's. It was a new concept which looked like taking off until stupid management decisions destroyed it. The best part of the concept was that it was not driver funded and in theory the best drivers were picked. Everyone involved in it was enthusiastic and felt it was a great series. Most involved have many years experience in these "ladder" formula's and have become very cinical. It is a very sad loss to motorsport.
Point taken Mak. Let's hope something good comes out of this A1-GP mess for those concerned. But I do think in a way it was in competition with other formulas. All drivers...well 99% of them, are looking to go F1..competing in A1-GP was part of that schooling, that process. People like Adam Carroll who deserves a good F1 chance. Being picked for A1-GP took them out of circulation from teams looking for funded F3/WSR or GP2 drivers. Let's hope too that Adam's work leads to better things.
Andrew Kitson is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2576394)   #106
westfieldbend
Veteran
 
westfieldbend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 616
westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson View Post
People like Adam Carroll who deserves a good F1 chance. Being picked for A1-GP took them out of circulation from teams looking for funded F3/WSR or GP2 drivers. Let's hope too that Adam's work leads to better things.
Its sad to say Adam Carroll is one of those drivers who despite having a huge amount of talent, it is lack of money that prevents him getting anywhere, in the rare occasion he had a good drive he was successful. And without A1GP i have no idea where he would be now, hopefully his success in A1 may help him progress.
westfieldbend is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2009, 18:03 (Ref:2576524)   #107
Moneyseeker
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,218
Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mak View Post
Andrew, I to think you are wrong about A1GP. It was not in competition with any of the many "ladder" formula's. It was a new concept which looked like taking off until stupid management decisions destroyed it. The best part of the concept was that it was not driver funded and in theory the best drivers were picked. Everyone involved in it was enthusiastic and felt it was a great series. Most involved have many years experience in these "ladder" formula's and have become very cinical. It is a very sad loss to motorsport.
plus A1GP did not just employ in the winter, and recently just at David Sears Motorsports alone there has been 20+ full time redundencies due to this mis-management by A1
But did it take off? The series has lost serious amounts of money, teams have come and gone, private investors have funded country teams - where is the return, where are the sponsors, would TV companies ever pay to have rights to A1GP?

Personally I never bought the nation v nation concept, motorsport is about drivers, individual performances. Sure there is an overall team performance in terms of preparing and running the car, but on track it's all about the driver.

If the concept were to work at all it should be 10 teams running 2 cars each, running under country flags with 2 national drivers from each with both a drivers and 'international' championship table.

But having said that, contrived championships are very difficult to make work.
Moneyseeker is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Nov 2009, 05:25 (Ref:2576809)   #108
Chris - Melb
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 864
Chris - Melb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChris - Melb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think it's a crying shame to see what has happened to A1GP.

It gave Australia an annual second chance to see international open wheeler competition.

Also, it provided an interesting "winter" series to fill the gap between the end of the F1 season and the beginning of a new season. It also gave non-European drivers at chance to shine.

In my view it was far more interesting than Formula One, as having a country to support added interest. With F1, if you are a New Zealander, Mexican, Canadian, American, etc, supporter then you generally have no drivers to support based on nationality.

There are not too many drivers in F1 worth supporting on personality alone!

It's a shame it didn't have time to become established, as I'm sure the series would have taken off eventually.
Chris - Melb is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Nov 2009, 10:51 (Ref:2576928)   #109
Mak
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 668
Mak should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
But did it take off? The series has lost serious amounts of money, teams have come and gone, private investors have funded country teams - where is the return, where are the sponsors, would TV companies ever pay to have rights to A1GP?

Personally I never bought the nation v nation concept, motorsport is about drivers, individual performances. Sure there is an overall team performance in terms of preparing and running the car, but on track it's all about the driver.

If the concept were to work at all it should be 10 teams running 2 cars each, running under country flags with 2 national drivers from each with both a drivers and 'international' championship table.

But having said that, contrived championships are very difficult to make work.
In season 1 & 2 the series made huge but expected losses, in season 3 it broke even, and had it continued in that form for a further year, with more efficiencies and the proposed stronger TV coverage and growing following would have been a success. Unfortunately people who knew nothing about the racing business and saw A1 as a huge Ego trip got control of it, and ruined it. (It must be said that the responsibilty for allowing (TT control) this to happen lies at the feet of all involved in A1GP.
Mak is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2009, 12:25 (Ref:2577576)   #110
Roninho
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
Roninho should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave not neil View Post
A1GP was a brilliant series, it's concept was great, and that you cannot deny. To suggest that a nation vs. nation series is of no need is ridiculous. Next year millions of people will be glued to there TV screens to watch the 2010 Football world cup, a nation vs. nation competition, which is a huge money spinner. Given the right promotion and management, it could, and should be hugely popular.
There are also nation vs. nation world cups in waterpolo, baseball, rowing and handball, and these are not huge moneymakers. The nation vs nation concept isn't new in sports and simply adding this concept to a sport doesn't make it an instant succes and imo is not a brilliant or great concept. The fact that most big tv-networks chose not to get the tv-rights suggest that they didn't found it a brilliant concept as well.
Roninho is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2009, 12:40 (Ref:2577590)   #111
blaffer
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 256
blaffer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wonder why the Dutch organizer (Lee van Dam) is still selling tickets for the A1GP event in Assen in May 2010 (http://www.a1gp-assen.com/).
blaffer is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2009, 13:04 (Ref:2577601)   #112
Tyrrell
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 41
Tyrrell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quite simple. Assen has not been postponed let alone cancelled. Zhuhai and Sepang have been postponed but not cancelled.
Tyrrell is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2009, 23:52 (Ref:2577904)   #113
Kiwi3
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
New Zealand
Beijing
Posts: 1,219
Kiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roninho View Post
There are also nation vs. nation world cups in waterpolo, baseball, rowing and handball, and these are not huge moneymakers. The nation vs nation concept isn't new in sports and simply adding this concept to a sport doesn't make it an instant succes and imo is not a brilliant or great concept. The fact that most big tv-networks chose not to get the tv-rights suggest that they didn't found it a brilliant concept as well.
TV networks don't give a toss about the concept, they care about how much the rights cost and how much they are likely to get from paid advertising. If it is a new event with low public profile then not much.
Kiwi3 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 06:08 (Ref:2578000)   #114
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 4,742
Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrrell View Post
Quite simple. Assen has not been postponed let alone cancelled. Zhuhai and Sepang have been postponed but not cancelled.
Zhuhai & Sepang have in fact been cancelled according to the announcement on the autosport web site. Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80017

Are you saying that this report is incorrect? Is the administrator trying to offer those rounds to potential purchasers of all the cars (with different dates of course)?
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 08:28 (Ref:2578061)   #115
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Not to mention should it reappear tracks would want a performance guarantee paid upfront by A1 to make sure they get there.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 08:44 (Ref:2578075)   #116
JagtechOhio
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
United States
Powell, Ohio USA
Posts: 2,311
JagtechOhio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJagtechOhio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bender, there was good feedback from others on the nation vs. nation concept. Got an opinion?

I think it's a marketing strategy to appeal to casual sports fans, and it didn't gain much traction. But when you ask casual U.S. fans about IndyCar, one of the common complaints is about the lack of U.S. drivers.

That's why I wonder how people around the world view the subject. As for me, I didn't really know much about Rene Arnoux or Gilles Villeneuve until I watched a race many Sundays ago. If you're a racing fan, you don't have to know what kind of sunglasses a guy wears or what country he buys them in. The skill is all that matters, and the flag is a universal one.
_________________________________________________________
Andy Bernstein
JagtechOhio is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 11:24 (Ref:2578193)   #117
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Seems a shame

I cant really watch ay of it due to not having Sky and a too slow net connection

Seemsas soon as the main guys ran away who started it all it completely lost impetus.

Did they make money and run?
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 17:04 (Ref:2578342)   #118
Tyrrell
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 41
Tyrrell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Zhuhai & Sepang have in fact been cancelled according to the announcement on the autosport web site. Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80017

Are you saying that this report is incorrect? Is the administrator trying to offer those rounds to potential purchasers of all the cars (with different dates of course)?
Yes the report is inaccurate. Please bear in mind that it is A1GP Operations Ltd (A1GPOL) only in Administration not the parent company or any of the other subsiduaries. Contracts for races would not have been made with A1GPOL.

Hopefully, the mess that is A1GPOL in Administration can be sorted soon. Assuming it is, then we'll know what chance there is of some Season 5 racing. The promoter at Sepang is still there, so too the people at Zhuhai. The promoter of the street track at Lippo village Indonesia is reported as being supportive too.
Tyrrell is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 18:55 (Ref:2578376)   #119
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Bender, there was good feedback from others on the nation vs. nation concept. Got an opinion?
Now you ask......I think the concept was good but fatally flawed because the best drivers in the world are in the main games F1 and Indy Cars.While there were some good drivers in the field,there were also a lot who weren't up to it,and its hard to get people excited about watching drivers they have never heard about about.
The A1 cars werent a big enough drawcard on thier own,here in NZ the V8 Supercars are the big crowd puller,A1 should have piggybacked with them to get established.I also think car racing fans prefer to support a driver or team,the nation vs nation was an idea,but it never works unless you have national teams like the Olympics.
Also you have the popular GP2 series in Europe,and to be honest I prefer watching GP2 races over the A1 races.
Could go one but it is very hard to create an event out of nothing and make it popular straight away,you need bags of money and time.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 19:53 (Ref:2578397)   #120
duke_toaster
Veteran
 
duke_toaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
European Union
Englandland
Posts: 5,100
duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The thing with A1GP is that one driver per nation is not a good way of running the concept in my opinion. Perhaps if there were two or three car teams using machinery used in another series (someone mentioned the old FF-F3-F2-F1 scale, if such a scale were to be back in existence the lowest rung would be the best fit) taking place over a week or two a la football world cup. A1GP used their own machinery and thought they could rival F1 - no-one can.

The new Ferrari car business didn't help either ...
duke_toaster is offline  
__________________
Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier."
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 20:42 (Ref:2578417)   #121
RichardRenes
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Netherlands
Rotterdam
Posts: 593
RichardRenes should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The nation vs nation concept was/ is working. No doubt about that.. If anything, the first race at Zandvoort was the definite proof of the concept.. The big error made was wrong people in key spots of the organisation and the Ferrari deal.. Zytek and Lola would have been perfectly able to bring the old car to the same specs of the new car. The old A1GP 3.4 litre Zytek engine had at least 100 hp still in it and Lola could have come up with a good high downforce car easily.

The lure of Ferrari simply was too big and A1 took the bait.
RichardRenes is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 22:24 (Ref:2578473)   #122
Kiwi3
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
New Zealand
Beijing
Posts: 1,219
Kiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Now you ask......I think the concept was good but fatally flawed because the best drivers in the world are in the main games F1 and Indy Cars.While there were some good drivers in the field,there were also a lot who weren't up to it,and its hard to get people excited about watching drivers they have never heard about about.
Not sure I agree. A lot of people who casually watch F1 only know the top 5-6 drivers. And a lot of sports have world cups where there is a big difference in standard between top and lower teams.
Kiwi3 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Nov 2009, 22:27 (Ref:2578480)   #123
Kiwi3
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
New Zealand
Beijing
Posts: 1,219
Kiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke_toaster View Post
The thing with A1GP is that one driver per nation is not a good way of running the concept in my opinion. Perhaps if there were two or three car teams using machinery used in another series (someone mentioned the old FF-F3-F2-F1 scale, if such a scale were to be back in existence the lowest rung would be the best fit) taking place over a week or two a la football world cup. A1GP used their own machinery and thought they could rival F1 - no-one can.

The new Ferrari car business didn't help either ...
From memory they said very clearly from the beginning that they were NOT out to rival F1.

I agree with the two car team thing. I always thought they should have ran different drivers in the sprint and feature races (with the result of the sprint deciding the feature) so that it was more of a team concept, as this might have taken away some of the criticism that drivers were not the best from each country.
Kiwi3 is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2009, 07:07 (Ref:2578706)   #124
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Start of the first sprint race at the NZ round this year...over half the grandstand seats were empty.The first time the series came it was packed out.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2009, 10:09 (Ref:2578783)   #125
RichardRenes
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Netherlands
Rotterdam
Posts: 593
RichardRenes should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hmm... I am sure I have pics somewhere of the 3 years a1 went to zandvoort. 100.000 spectators on average over the 3 years.
RichardRenes is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jordan Gone/Going Bankrupt???? Armco Bender Formula One 83 5 Feb 2003 09:13
Janspeed Bankrupt SPOONERBORO Touring Car Racing 3 6 Oct 2001 10:20
Minardi Bankrupt? crash Formula One 22 20 Nov 2000 20:56


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.